“First it was discovered that VP Dick Cheney ordered the CIA not to disclose to Congress the government’s secret and illegal surveillance program, or at least not to reveal the full extent of the program. Then came the half-truths about the extent of government use of torture. I find it strange that no one in Congress or the media is asking what authority did the Vice President have to issue such orders, and why the CIA was obeying them? They should also be wondering if this points to some alternative power structure inside government that the public doesn’t know about. But, that would sound like a conspiracy, which is off limits for public discussion. The latest scandal is centered on CIA Director Leon Panetta’s admission that VP Dick Cheney instructed the CIA not to tell Congress about a “new” secret assassination program aimed at al Qaeda leaders. Something is wrong with this story on several fronts. First, secret assassination programs against internal and external “enemies” have been ongoing since World War II. Second, both Republican and Democratic administrations and key members of Congress have known about them.”

As for the comments made about President Hinckley allowing VP Cheney to come to BYU and if he was in fact acting as the prophet of the church when making that invitation, my only thought to those who question would be “choose ye this day whom ye will serve…” I choose to follow the prophet. You may choose to question everything the prophet does or says and that’s your right. I sustain him in everyway. Call me foolish. I can live with that.

Let’s suppose hypothetically that the Church denied Cheney’s “self-invite” (which in and of itself would be a political statement the Church tries to avoid). Such a brush-off by Church officials could have serious implications for us Latter-Day Saints by inviting government to look into things like out tax-exempt status.

Perhaps GAs really ARE aware of Cheney’s evil nature, but by staying on evil’s good side are reflecting away any unnecessary persecution of us.

This really is quite similar of the accounts of German Saints’ own beliefs – that LDS ability to look the other way when Hitler’s SS would look into and attend their meetings actually saved the lives of many Saints. In other words they “made friends of with the mammon of unrighteousness, so they would not destroy [them].” D&C 82:22

I agree with many of the comments made on this post that Cheney is truly evil and is a part of the “secret combinations” (although on what level I can’t say) whose goal is to instate Satan’s rule on earth.

What I’m confused about is why don’t the Church leaders know this….or if they do why can’t they say no thank you …“ The church does not become involved in politics. We don’t favor any candidate. We don’t permit our buildings to be used for political purposes. We don’t favor any party.”

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

I am happy to learn of your excellent credentials and anxiously await the post of your debate for the opposite point of view. With your love of history and your strong debate experience, it should be a winner:) You can post it on my blog http://janetwalgren.wordpress.com. if you don’t have one of your own.

Secondlly, I debated in college and took second place in the Phi Ro Pi regionals. I have read extensively on the current political scene. I am not attempting to persuade you of anything. Nor was my purpose to go into depth discussing or arguing the merits of your political inclinations or my own.

I would be horrified if the missionaries taught anything but the gospel, and your suggesting that I believe such is just as shallow a statement of my thinking as you claim I am in my thinking about you. You assume alot as well. You need to think deeper as well. I am no more a stereotype than you are.

In considering the current situation I remember President Hinckley’s words in October 2001 conference. His address, “The Times in Which We Live.” is my lodestone.

Do you think that BYU is the only place where labeling and stereotyping occur? I think we would agree that such things are more common than not in the Universities of our nation.
Do you feel threatened by such things at BYU? Perhaps it is simply a reaction to the way conservatives are treated at many Institutions of higher learning.

At least your tone is scholarly and polite. I am concerned with some of the name calling and overgeneralization on the part of some of the other posts.

When I think of the amount of evil currently on the earth I think it is breathtakingly presumtive to label the Vice President “one of the most evil men on the face of the earth right now.” It reminds me of the labels of “charlatan, false prophet, and adulterer, placed on Joseph Smith by some critics. Or the words “cult” and “Mormon” being placed side by side.

One thing is for certain. No political party has a moral monopoly.

Cheney is all those and more. He is one of the most evil men on the face of the earth right now. And Osama bin Laden was a creation of the CIA. ( Just a patsy like Lee Harvey Oswald was.)

I am not a student and I will not be attending the graduation. My daughter is a student and this is not her graduation. She has been and has seen others shut down for not being Republican – she is independent. The same thing happened in the 80′s when my former husband was a student …I was a Republican at that time. Students are constantly saying that you can’t be a Democrat and a worthy member of the church…a common theme in happy valley. Well President Faust served in the Utah State legislature as a Democrat. Elder Groberg is a Democrat. There are several general authorities who are Democrat and they are all good decent men of sound understanding.

Brigham Young understood the importance of lively dialog and representation in both political parties. When Utah became a state and when the Mormons were finally allowed to hold public office and to vote, the Republicans had treated the Mormons so badly that no one wanted to be one. What did Brigham do about it? He appointed men to be Republican because the balance was (and is still) needed. Why? What happens when there is no balance?

The Castro district of San Francisco is a good example. The Gay population started buying property and all the straight population bailed. The Gay population high jacked the entire Castro district including control of the vote, the schools, and the local government. I see that as a very dangerous paradigm – a threat to my freedom.

My comment was about integrity, not about the commencement, not about the visit, not about the speech. When someone expresses a point of view different than your own –that is not trying to shut you down. I believe that ALL students have a right to express their opinions without the ridiculous labeling and moral judging that so often takes place on BYU campus. I welcome the lively dialog.

I challenge you to do as I suggested in my post; research and write a debate presentation to support the opposite point of view. Then you will have the ability to understand those who disagree with you (and perhaps to intelligently persuade them to change their opinion.) Saying that I oppose Dick Cheney is different than saying that I oppose Dick Cheney coming to campus or talking at the commencement. I deliberately did not disclose my opinion concerning his visit. I did disclose my opinion about him but did not say why. You assumed a lot, so you judged me and that is exactly my point.

If some worthy tithe payers from all over the globe feel offended they deserve to understand that BYU is not a university controlled by a political party as is so commonly put forth by some faculty and students (example – the recent Mitt Romney BYU grassroots email that had the potential to cause the church to loose its tax exempt status.) My daughter works with mostly foreign student. Many are very dismayed with US politics. BYU has Muslim students as well some who will be graduating. The missionaries proselyte to Democrats and their door approach does not include a political party qualifier, nor does their baptismal interview. Think a little deeper!

The Book of Mormon provides no justification for preemptive war. In fact, Moronihah states that the Lord will not support those who take such a course of action. We are justified in war only as a measure of self-defense. Last time I checked, Iraq never attacked us. But, I digress…

So Connor and Janet, how about you quit trying to shut down the opposition? How about you stop being so politically correct by attempting to silence a voice that disagrees with your own. How about listening what he has to say?

I’ve never tried to shut down the opposition. Let Cheney come. Let him speak. But I will be making my voice heard as well, in opposition to the man.

When John F. Kennedy spoke at the tabernacle, no one protested, despite his clumsy attempt at invading Cuba.

If the Vice-President is guilty of these things than let him have his day in court. I’m sure that the congressional leadership will arrange for that if there is any way they can swing it. Meanwhile, casting aspersions is non-productive.

Let me say this. If Nancy Pelosi were invited to speak at commencement at BYU I would listen to her speech with quiet courtesy. I would honor the office of Speaker of the House. I can not disagree with her politics more than I do now. But Protesting is counter-productive. However, I suppose students feel like they have to have their input.
Most of us thought we could politically change the world when we were young.

Age teaches us that things aren’t often as simple or clear cut as they seem.

Some of these comments are a bit over the top. “Gadianton Incarnate”? “Certified Warmonger”? I thing I would reserve those for Osama Bin Laden.

As a worthy temple recommend holder I am totally opposed to the impeachment of the President. Nor do I see the Vice President as committing “crimes against the world”. If Janet feels that way she has the privilege to do so under our current system of government. I doubt she would have the same opportunity under the taliban or Al Quaida.

I do not begrudge Janet her temple recommend. But something she said cuts both ways. “Everyone needs to quit trying to shut down the opposition and start inquiring what they have to say…” I would suggest that since the Vice President appears to be in the minority in this country, he represents “the opposition”, So Connor and Janet, how about you quit trying to shut down the opposition? How about you stop being so politically correct by attempting to silence a voice that disagrees with your own. How about listening what he has to say?

I wouldn’t touch your petition with a ten foot pole. And I am a patriot too.

I think the labels Democrat…left wing liberal and Republican…right wing conservative are very misleading. There are conservatives and radicals on both sides of the isle. I am neither Republican nor Democrat. I am fiercely Independent. I prefer to use my own brain, my own heart, my own inspiration and my own label.

That being said, as the daughter of a former Senator Orin Hatch constituent representative, a former wife of a three tour Vietnam vet who silently stood in protest in front of the Marriot Center when Gen. Westmoreland visited BYU campus to speak, a mother of three children who served or are serving in the military, and a graduate of EWU holding a BA in government with a pre-law emphasis, and a worthy temple recommend holder… I am opposed to Dick Cheney, his actions, his policies, his crimes against the world. I am for the impeachment and removal of our president. I am a patriot.

America needs leaders of integrity. Will BYU produce them? I think that the lively discourse that has been spawned over this controversial issue is one of the best things (politically and academically) that has happened on campus for a very long time. Everyone needs to quit trying to shut down the opposition and start inquiring about what they have to say, and look to the motive for why they want to say it. Do they know what they are talking about? What are their sources? –Rush Limbaugh is NOT a source…well perhaps a source of contention, but not a credible source for truth and understanding.

In my government classes, we studied history from a global perspective…yes we did paradigm shifts, we studied philosophy, we studied the U.S. Constitution, we read the original documents for Supreme Court decisions (the entire case from the bottom up …from crime-to cop-to court), we traced the sources of the sources and verified the data…boy did my politics change. It is amazing how a lot of knowledge can free you of the labels that destroy freedom.

Connor, this is my first visit to your blog – Ben linked it…I love it and I will be a regular. Thanks to both of you.

The BYU administration has done a superb job of getting top-flight speakers for things this coming year. Cheney, Reid, Roberts, and they just had Ken Burns. Kudos to the folks lining these guys up.

The downside is that it is two weeks before the event. I’m sure efforts will be seen to organize a protest on the day of Cheney’s visit, and if so, I will be there.