“When the wicked rule, the people mourn.” This applies to both the government and the FLDS. I will continue to pray for the children. What has been done is just wrong!!

Great Job Connor! You did a wonderful thing. I can not tell you how much I appreciate it as a citizen of these “not so great of late” United States of America.

May I copy this post and put it on my site located at Free the FLDS Children? I’d like the reach of this information to go far and wide.

Thanks again,

Connor, thank you for championing this cause and helping others to make their voices heard.

I shudder to think that if I lived in Texas, my children could be taken from me based solely on my religion and the mere suspicion of abuse.

Sadly, we sacrifice our rights and trample on the rights of others simply because the ends justify the means!

My thoughts and prayers go out to these children and their parents. I can scarcely imagine how I would live without my children! I would be devastated!!

I agree with everything you have said and are doing. I read your editorial in the Daily Herald this morning and tried to sign the petition. My daughter was also trying and couldn’t figure out how to do it. It was confusing till we cut and pasted this website and learned it was now closed. It would be a good idea to put on your petition page that it is closed so people won’t get frustrated wondering what’s wrong like we did. We just kept clicking to sign but nothing was happening. Thanks!

Connor,
I wanted to thank you for putting the petition together. My wife and I are ex-flds members. While we lived in the flds community we were never abused, kicked out, and when we left we were never chased down. We both loved growing up In a safe community . We chose to leave because of religious differences. I feel that what Texas has done has violated so many Constitutional rights and I fear for the rest of us. Thank you again I appreciate you for standing up for our Constitution. My in-laws also send a heartfelt THANK YOU.

Conner,

Thank you for your efforts, these children need all the help they can get.

I would be very grateful if you could let me know the reaction of the Governor to your petition. I am betting you will not even be given the courtesy of a reply, even if the petition contained 50,000
names.

Every Constitutional right imaginable has been violated here, and if the people allow it to stand, they deserve their own doors kicked in one day for a hoax.

The parents have put up a web site, captivefldschildren.org
I emplore those who want to see the truth to look at those video’s and imagine their own family’s being dragged through this persecution.

They need help, please do not abandon them!

Conner (and others),

Thank-you! Those are my friends and some of my beloved family members. This whole fiasco has been executed in a cold and heartless manner by the State of Texas and the CPS. I personally do not know of any underage girls married to old men, or even married for that matter (and I do not look the other way to purposely not see it). I do know, however, many loving FLDS fathers, mothers and their children. I grew up in a loving environment and was taught to learn and grow by love. I have 50+ brothers and sisters, (and yes, I know all their names) the youngest married was 18 years old at the time.

Now, everyone is not the same, so of course there are some who will do wrong and will abuse, but that is NOT condoned by the FLDS and is expelled as quickly and decently as possible (that is why there are many embittered ex-members). Those people have only hurt themselves (and now hundreds of innocent people) by hiding their own wrongs and pointing the finger of blame at others.

Thanks for letting me “vent” : ) for a minute. I am just so horribly appalled at what is happening and well, my heart is broken and weeping for the children. I have seen many of these same children happy, smiling, playing and joyful. I can only imagine the hell they are going through now. I wake up in the night and my thoughts are of them. May God bless and protect them. And again, thank-you for being kind!

Thank you for all your effort! Its a shame to see how the rights of these people have totally been walked on and how Texas thinks they can split of families like this. Some of those kids are my own relatives, Although i am not a part of there religion but I know they are loved and well taken care of. If CPS wants to be useful they should start searching houses around the country and i am sure they will find plenty of real abuse cases to keep them busy for a very long time. I don’t think the state of Texas gives two cents about the safety of those children… this is not even about safety. This is about there ego and thinking they can squash a persons right to believe the way they want to. It makes me sick to my stomach to see how Texas of all states has been dealing with this. The only thing that comforts me at night is knowing God is in charge. Those kids are in my thoughts and prayers at all times. I hope all this comes back and bites Texas in the butt!

Thanks, Connor, your involvement is appreciated.
Is there any email/mail address of those FLDS people, so messages of symphaty could be sent to them?

This is so sad to see these people’s rights ignored.

Here are a few videos that are quite eye-opening about CPS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VEhdOOOzZg
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8h4SOwWXdc&feature=user

Can we sit by and do nothing through this tragic ordeal in which people’s constitutional rights are ignored? I am SO shocked at how they rip families apart and just don’t care.

Are my kids safe? Are your kids safe?

Quite sobering for me.

Hey Peter, you posted the following:

“Thanks, Connor, your involvement is appreciated.
Is there any email/mail address of those FLDS people, so messages of symphaty could be sent to them?”

There is a website they have set up:
http://www.captivefldschildren.org

On the website, it has an email address for sending comments to.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Scott.

Are you serious?

How dare you!!! You should all be ashamed. I read some of the post on the petition and I am so disappointed. Half of you don’t even know what’s going on. I can’t believe some of you are comparing the Texas government to Hitler and the Nazis. This has nothing to do with religious persecution, and we’re not trying to have a mass murder of FLDS followers, were not starving them, were not forcing them to work in camps, hell those kids are getting better treatment than kids who have been children of the state their whole lives.
This isn’t something the government did on a whim either. This investigation has been going on for years and they knew what was happening. You can’t expect that a state government would take on anything this huge just because a little girl called in.
Americans my butt, you’re all idiots!!! I’d hate to live in a state that wouldn’t have done it for me. Bravo Texas, Bravo!

You would want the state to take you from your parents because your neighbor was abusive? Nobody has presented any evidence that all the parents of the FLDS children have been abusive.

I live in Canada and what I’ve been seeing with these people is abhorrent.
There are many communities in North America, in cities, in many communities that have reported abuses towards children, but I have YET to see a government go into a neighbourhood which has even a few reported abuses towards children and remove ALL of the children from that neighbourhood. It WOULD NOT HAPPEN!
I read a comment on a board which said , if we were talking about a homosexual community a muslim community or a catholic community , it wouldn’t be even on the radar.
These people are easy targets , they are peaceful, obviously love their children and have a healthy sense of community.
There will ALWAYS be problems in ANY community. So deal with those problems on an individual basis!!!!!!!!!
SHAME on the TEXAS GOVERNMENT!!!!!

This may be the greatest miscarriage of justice and abuse of civil rights since the Ku Klux Klan. The complainer turns out to be a 30 year old black woman from Colorado Springs who has never had anything to do with the FLDS.

All law enforcement officers who participated in the kidnapping of these people and the abuse of their civil rights should be barred from ever holding a law enforcement position again. The Texas governor should be replaced immediately and each menber of the FLDS should be compensated for the terrible travesty they have suffered. Apparently the Texas authorities are as easily duped as their candidate for president was.

Looks like you stepped in it again Connor. Most of those children were either pregnant or they were already mothers. Forcably impregnating a child is wrong. It was wrong when Joseph Smith did it. It was wrong when Brigham Young did it. And it is wrong in todays world too. Why you LDSers believe impregnating young girls is God’s word is beyond me. Todays society it just not going to tolerate it anymore. The child molestors are going to be found guilty and they are going to prison. It’s too bad we cant turn back the clocks to when Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were doing the very same things and inprision them as well.

Bishop Rick…
We DON’T believe impregnating young girls is right. We believe it is wholeheartedly WRONG. If you study the teachings of the LDS church you would know that.

How many of the 400 children were pregnant or parents? Give us data to support your claim. The 3 i’ve heard about do not in any way compose “most”. That’s .7 percent. From what I’ve read it’s lower than the national average for teen pregnancy. But I guess that’s only if you include all the children, much of whom are well below child-bearing age. I have a hard time believing 3-year olds and toddlers can be mothers. Your claim is way off-base.

You have made accusations that have NO basis in fact.

Jeff,
Actually, it was in the news today that 31 of the 52 or so girls between 13-17 years old have been pregnant or are currently pregnant. If that’s correct, than the trend sure seems to exist.

B. Rick,
As already stated by Connor and many others on this post, the crimes that are committed should be prosecuted when there’s proof the crimes occurred. This obviously includes girls getting pregnant younger than legal age. Please don’t construe revealed information in the news to mean that Connor (or any other LDS that agree with him) supports what has been discovered. Honestly, you just make yourself look like a fool for doing so. And no one wants that.

I am corrected. Last week, I had heard otherwise.

I should research before I post… I was going off previous information. Now I realize what sparked Bishop Rick’s comment, even though I think he’s wrong in his accusations.

conner thank you for all you have done , no body condones abuse or molestation nobody sees cps is breaking the law I would hate to have the media involved in my case because most people trust cps I did and they made up every lie they could about me even though I could prove them wrong the judge wouldn,t accept my evidence but enough people have seen how deceitful cps is maybe not all of them but everyone I,ve meet are terrorist don,t believe anything they say unless you have seen it with your own eyes the only reason they take children first and keep their parents away is so the real evidence will never be found now it is all about what cps makes up to steal the children if there so worried about being dicovered they wouldnt keep familys apart anyone who believes their outrages lies will in the future learn it is all hear say and they have no physical evidence wheres the proof they can lie and get away with it and everyone in oath lets them one cps worker alone gets a 6,000.00 dollar bonus for every kid placed in the adopt-fost program Mrs Hillary clinton started , 2.1 million dollars just went in the cps workers pocket just one worker for the removal of these innocent children from the FLDS do you honestly believe this is about underage pregancy & molestation that goes on every where not just among one group but society as a whole lets go take everyones kids and call them guilty until proven innocent equal protection fo the law right why are you picking on them take the guilty and leave the innocent alone this thing you are a ccusing them of happens in are own society . My neice just found out a 12 year old girl is pregnant in her public school come on cps step-up to the plate wheres the DNA on this girl<s babys dad we are all created equal where is the justice open your eyes hard enough America do your homework and you will find its in your whats in the best interest of the child cps workerspockets thats why they take the innocent children away utah,s famous for it and are general Attorney thinks the FDLS prayed against him wwhen he had his motorcycle accident I think enough negative energy innicent people have when you have helped kidnapped innocent children and destroyed familly can carry alot of weight , I am the most forgiving person in the world but forgive the cps worker for what she has put me and my children through I say never My bishop & doctors say I must or it will destroy me I agree but I cant comprehind it in this life time I hope God can get me there Lets all pray maybe if people would go to web-sites on innocent children who died in the hands of cps and you see the biological parents tribute to the death of innocent babies as young as 2 mos old to 18 yrs and not even the loving parent had the rights to protect their babies and go find the numbers of children dropped off in foster care who become lost and never heard from again wake-up I would never lie to you these are all facts you can find yourself if you care enough to save our children you will and I urge you never listen to hearsay demand physical evidence .

I think from the past facts turned false we need to take what Texas CPS says, with a lot of grains of salt! It seems anything goes anymore.

The recent news that so-called “half” of the teenage girls, age 14-17 are or have been pregnant, is meaningless. It is a propaganda statement designed to outrage the public and justify the raid and kidnappings.

This number includes many women who are over 18! But the state will not accept their offered proof that they are adults.

The state judge (Walthers) has not allowed the women of the FLDS church to prove their ages by using their birth certificates and social security cards and tax returns. The judge says birth certificates and drivers licenses can be faked, so the CPS did an “eyeball test” to guesstimate the ages of the women and girls.

Some of these so-called “underaged girls” are legally wed to men their own ages! One 17 year old young woman is married monogamously to a 17 year old young man. One 17 year old young woman is married monogamously to a 22 year old man. These women are counted in the 31, though they are legally wed to men their own ages.

Many who CPS claims are less than 18 years old are actually older. One of the women being held as a minor is 24; one is 28; that according to their lawyers, who are not FLDS members and who have nothing to gain by hiding their true ages.

What CPS reports is purposely misleading and does not prove anything.

They need to start personal law suits!

TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1983Prev | Next § 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights
How Current is This? Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

Connor, please face the facts. Joseph Smith impregnated a young girl. Brigham Young impregnated several young girls. Warren Jeffs and some of his followers impregnated young girls. All three of these can be put in the same catagory. I know you believe that God ordered Joseph and Brigham to impregnate young girls but there is no proof of that order. Joseph and Brigham bedded young girls for their own selfish pleasures. Warren Jeffs did the same thing. Three peas in a pod.

Bishop Rick,

How old was Mary when she was impregnated with the Savior?

You seem to have it al figured out?

Yes Bishop Rick, how old was she? She was 12 years old!! In case you didn’t know, which wouldn’t suprise me.

Furthermore, it was by an older man, Joseph didn’t come to the first gathering of the elders because he was an older man, when the Priests called for the all the elders to come and plant their staffs in the ground Joseph didn’t come because he felt he was too old!! The Lord told the Priests to make sure all of them came the second time, when they planted their staffs Josephs grew leaves and became alive. Of course, Joseph didn’t really impregnate her, but that’s another long story.

Bishop Rick wishes they had CPS back then to jail Joseph and place the Christ child in a foster home.

Ahhhhhhhhh,we dont really know how old Mary was when God presented her with the Christ child. As you recall that was known as the Immaculate Conception and no earthly man took part in it. I know you LDSers and FLDSers have a different version. And we know that version was pulled out of thin air by one Joseph Smith. Yes the very same Joseph Smith who was tried and convicted in a legal US court of numerous felonies. His track record speaks for itself. My main point remains intact and spot on. I understand that LDSers are banned from telling the truth about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young; I however am not banned from telling the truth. It was wrong for LDS members to impregnate young girls in the 1800’s and it remains wrong today. Why is this concept so hard for you to understand? Could it be that this issue is hitting too close to home? If Warren Jeffs is right then Joseph Smith was right too. You cant have it both ways.

Bogus warrant with foreknowledge of the same - where is Rozita Swinton? Why hasn’t she been arrested? Any potential criminal proceeding is jeopardized due to the bogus warrant. The women are victimized and the children are innocent, so you victimize both further by splitting them up…1-year-olds, can you imagine their suffering? No due process in re individual hearings. Failure to meet burden on law that danger to children be “immediate”. Even the ACLU called them out, as have tons of legal professionals.

CPS is grasping at straws. Rather than believe records they “eye-ball” test for age…claim “teen” pregnancies, but legal age of consent is 17 with an adult, previously younger - further allowances are made for sex amongst minors. Now they claim 41 old fractures in a population of nearly 500 children spells abuse…again, DNA evidence, etc, gathered under a bogus warrant will not fly in criminal proceedings…who are they chasing?? Check the national incidence rate for fractures in children - hovers right around the ratio cited. CPS is desperate for guilt, they’ve got some pretty weak soup so far.

Bishop Rick…here’s a quote especially for you

“No accurate thinker will judge another based on that which the other person’s enemies say about him”

- Napoleon Hill http://napoleonhill.wwwhubs.com/

The Prophet Joseph was tried and convicted based on flimsy and unfounded “evidence”, and whenever he could get before a “just” judge, he was exonerated. ANY conviction he received was from corrupt judges who were outspoken in their hatred of him and Mormonism. And if you actually took the time to study - he was brought before different courts time after time on the exact same charges of which he had already been aquitted of in another court.

According to the dictatorship of their hearts, the Corporation known as the State of Texas may dictate so. And even the Corporation known as the United States may dictate so, but then again they are not my Gov. They abandoned those seats as such long ago. And their reaching out well beyond the bounds of DC’s 10 mile square is nothing more than you allowing it in your lives. Just who is a private IMF controled Corporation when it comes to making law and judgment? When that same Corporation joined the IMF, World Bank for reconstruction and development, and the EU, it became evil as they seek a world court and dictatorship. They are not, nor will they be my moral police. Scripture is being fulfilled and you are backing them it. In the end you both will end up in the pit. Seems like Judging Joseph Smith and others by what others may say, but may not be true can be a tragic path leading to endless torment. No wonder I pray for my answers and avoid the word of mouth wich always seems to be twisted.

Connor, on immigration, two years ago:

I am absolutely in favor of obeying the law, and since illegal immigration is against the law, there is no room or tolerance for amnesty for people breaking the law.

Connor, on the FLDS (who are practising polygyny and child marriage illegally) now:

Yes, these people are different from “the rest of us”. They have a strange dress, lifestyle, and a religion that is at odds with “mainstream” Christianity. But is that license to pursue the present course of action? I submit that Texan officials have far overstepped their bounds, and will soon find themselves in a mess of legal trouble if they do not immediately apologize and return the children and families to their homes.

That’s funny. Why the difference?

1. Being Latino is not a religion.
2. Connor doesn’t expect to be a Mexican someday.

Let me type this slowly so you’ll get it.

Polygamy is illegal in Texas.

Not usually prosecuted because there are more serious crimes. But I think it’s weird that on some issues you’re like “The law’s the law” and where there’s a religion involved, you’re like “Whatever”.

But have you ever come down against the practice of a religious group? Seems to me that when the rights of elderly white polygamist men to impregnate teenage girls is threatened, you can’t rush to their defense fast enough.

I suppose I should be hopeful that you’re abandoning moral absolutism in favour of a more nuanced view, but I fear that hope is in vain. Where do you stand on Heinz’ Dilemma? It would help me explain a few things.

It seems like Daniel is for mob rule, he seems to agree that just because someone makes some claims about someone else they should be taken as truth. It is this type of hype that the media feed on and it will be the death of freedom as we know it. Why the third world mentality? May be he is a TV generation learner, “if it is what they said on TV it must be true”. And those planes really did bring down 3 buildings, cause Bush and the media said so.

While he’s out, the bad news keeps on coming.

At least 41 children seized from a polygamist ranch in West Texas in April have had broken bones, and some young boys may have been sexually abused, Texas officials said Wednesday.

The article goes on to say that the state didn’t offer any evidence for these assertions. I’d love it if this were all false, but these are people who excommunicate their young males to reduce competition for females, so reserving judgment is not as easy as it might be.

@ Greg Lesher: There were planes?! I thought it was the rows and rows of explosives that Donald Rumsfeld planted up and down the towers.

There are two kinds of freedom here. There’s those hoary lechers’ freedom to abuse those girls and boys, and then there’s the freedom of the kids not to be abused. I know whose freedom I’ll stand by. Thanks for showing your hand.

Yes the lies keep coming. Broken bones? My arm was broken in grade school, but then again I took a bike jump as fast as I could pedal. Children break arms, legs and worse. Texas is grabbing at straws. It is what happens when you leap before you look. It is the same knee jerk reaction you see any high school child would do when caught red handed. Texas screwed up again, just like the did in Waco. They do more to damage than protect. And this time I hope The State of Texas pays for it big time. May just be we will see some action on Texas from above in behalf of these families prayers. I am sure there is some abuse, but on a level less than what we see in the rest of the US. I just happen to have a friend who grew up in Colorado City, and what you hear from the media and The State of Texas Corporation, just aint so…. Business as usual

Broken bones??? 41 out of 460 or so children is about a 9% incidence rate of broken bones over these children’s lives so far. How does that stack up to the general population?

(delete spaces in links)

On About.com we see that broken bones are extremely common in children.

orthopedics dot about dot com/cs/pediatricsurgery/a/fractures.htm

The American Academy of Pediatrics states that broken bones are the fourth most common injury in children under six.

www dot aap dot org/publiced/BK0_Fractures.htm

Over 50% of children will sustain a fracture before they reach adulthood.

www dot kidsgrowth dot com/resources/articledetail.cfm?id=260

Exams also find a history of injuries everywhere, this update means nothing…except to show that there are in fact fewer broken bones among the FLDS than there are in the general public, by almost a SIX to one ratio!

Daniel,

Since when is it just for me to be punished for my neighbor’s actions?

Daniel,

Also, Connor is not defending child abuse. He is defending the rights of those mothers who have not committed or been charged with a crime to be with their children.

@ Jeff T: Exasperated sigh. As I told Connor before, no one is arguing that kids that aren’t at risk of being abused should be removed from their parents. The problem is that it is suspected that those children have been abused or were at immediate risk of being abused.

If they’re wrong, and there has been no abuse, then that’ll be the best news I’ve heard all week. Bad for the families, but child protection is about making the tough calls. I don’t envy their job, that’s for sure. Let’s see what comes out of the paternity tests and the medical reports. Of course, I happen to think that being brought up FLDS is ipso facto a form of child abuse, but that’s not really actionable.

@ Greg Lesher (again):

And this time I hope The State of Texas pays for it big time. May just be we will see some action on Texas from above in behalf of these families prayers.

Are you hoping that a supernatural being will… smite Texas? I would ask why you hate America so much, but that’s so 2005.

And a slap to my own forehead wrt Greg’s comment: I finally realised that this is about Waco. Isn’t it? It’s all about Waco. The anti-government right is still feeling the reverberations from that awful Branch Davidian thing. I remember living in Utah at the time. I heard nothing but jackboots and black helicopters out of the locals for weeks.

Well, maybe the folks in Texas are learning from past mistakes. This time they got the kids out of the compound first before the folks on the inside had the chance to burn down the whole place.

Am I now going to hear about how Janet Reno single-handedly lobbed Molotov cocktails onto the roof? Come on, Greg, don’t disappoint me!

Danial,
You sure like to put words in people’s mouths. First of all I do not hate America. What I hate is those like you who destroy what America is about, an it is those who abuse the supreme law of the land who oppress the people. And yes, it is those who have taken our God granted freedoms and liberties who I pray for a swift judgment. Clinton and Obama say we live in the greatest country in the world, and they want change? How about the restoration of what we have that made this country so great??

As far as what is going on with the abuse that happend at Waco, the branch davideans were nothing more than Seventh Day Adventists. In fact he was looking like he would be their next prophet. A little investigation would reveal that the local sherriff said he could, and wanted to arrest the man with out any incident. They knew each other personally. But that was what the wanted, a show of force and as a result a lot of inocent children were burned to death by fire. And hardly a cry was heard from the public under their media coma.

I have some simple questions any one with any brains could answer, view the video “lose change” or “in plane site” and answer any of those questions the experts ask with solid answers and we may have somthing to talk about. Dr. Steven Jones has shown proof that the patent version of thermate was used, but still no investigation in to that. Hittlers path once again….

The only evidence they have that some of the children may be abused is that their parents are members in the FLDS church. If that’s all it takes to get your child taken away, then you are punishing them based upon their religious faith, not any actual crime they’ve committed. There is no evidence of actual or potential abuse by many of the parents involved. Why take the children away?

Is it just for the government to take my kid away on fear of potential abuse because an abusive neighbor happens to belong to the same church as I?

As far as broken bones and the average:

What Texas does not take in is the fact that brain dead children like their own, who sit in front of the TV and watch crap and play video games all day, hardly break a sweat let alone a bone or two.

To Daniel… Have you never climbed a tree and broke a limb? : )

I personally know many of the “lost boys” and whatever you “believe” from media reports aint neccessarly so. Most of the young men were out at nights drinking, smoking, and sexually involved with (gasp) underage girls. Are you saying that we (FLDS parents) should have encouraged that behavior and allowed it so the boys would “stick around?”
And for your info…each boy chose on his own to stay or go. Staying meant cleaning up and making something more of their life…going to school…learning a trade, etc. And the reason so many of them have “educational problems” is for the very fact that they “chose” not go to school, rather, they “chose” to go off with their “friends”.

My suggestion to you is don’t believe everything you hear and half of what you say!

The hearts of everyone of those boys’ parents were broken. They want nothing more than for the boys to succeed in life, BUT…should they give up their values so a stubborn teen gets what he wants? Shouldn’t those boys be as respectful of their parents as everyone in the nation seems to think the parents should be of the ‘Lost Boys’?

And please don’t rant back at me about FLDS values or such…just realize - there is WAY more to the story than any of you realize…give the same consideration to the FLDS Parents that you give to “Lost Boys” before condemning anyone.

FLDS Mother,

With all due respect, the treatment of the so-called Lost Boys was beyond the pale and was nothing more than a mass excommunication of competition for the older men of the FLDS sect.

My compassion for you and your children starts at the overreaching hand of the government, and ends at the point where you extend your hand to expel boys as young as 13 from your community. Shame on you!

I will fight for your right to reunite with your children, but please do not confuse my compassion for ignorance and blind acceptance of everything that takes place in the FLDS communities. I do not condone the marriage of underage women to older men and I certainly cannot abide the thought of women being forced to be subservient to men who exercise unrighteous dominion.

Brian,
I know a man, he was no “lost boy” and was raised in Colorado City, he did not marry a girl from that city, nor was he booted out. But he knew a few that were asked to leave, and with good reason. I would no more accept illeagle drugs and such in my home than they would. So shame on you for assuming these media hype lost boys deserve to be a part of this comunity who hated such unlawfull contriban.

By the way I know more than one of those men. And the story is the same, you and your media are in a bed of lies.

Yes shame on you…. and your assumptions.

I have to stand up and say here, I left the FLDS because I wanted to play, I wanted to go to movies, I loved basketball, and I liked a girl. My mother was sad, but she said “you need to make the choice that will make you happy, God want’s us to be happy, and if that’s your choice go be as good a man as you can”. I left, I know many of the lost boys, they are all ones who listened to Dan & Flora and saw they could make a ruckus. I am happy, My mother still loves me, although she is grieved with my choice. FLDS Mom is very correct in her sentiments, and for your information Brian, you have been brainwashed with a lot of lies and misinformation. Oh, by the way!! Did you notice I can spell and type? I’m not dumb and neither are most of them, except the ones who refused as was stated to go to School.

Funny. I never did break any bones, even though I climbed lots of trees. Played a lot of Atari, as well. That probably helped.

@ Jeff T: I do have to confess that, in hindsight, the phone call that started all this looks like pretty flimsy evidence. But then, I don’t know what the current guidelines are when social workers etc. are determining when to pull kids out of a potentially abusive situation. I can’t agree with your analogy though — this situation is a bit different than two people who happen to belong to the same church. I’d say it’s more like a community where abuse is (or could be) endemic. In this case, the abuse is caused by a religious practice that is shared by the community. So, yes, it does make sense to hold the community accountable for its shared practices.

Australia had a situation like this last year where some Aboriginal communities were rife with alcohol and sexual abuse, and the government took some fairly stringent and controversial steps to oppose it. Might be an interesting comparison.

I am realising that somehow I’m arguing against Connor and the ACLU at the same time. How’d that happen? Next time you feel like bagging the ACLU, could you remember this issue? Sometimes they go to the wall for issues you’d agree with.

@ I Am NOT A Lost Boy: I’m very interested in your story. Did you ever believe in the church (’have a testimony’, as they say)? Was it hard getting out? Feel free to contact me off-blog via my link, if you want. I’m interested in de-conversions of all types.

A side question to any FLDS lurking: Would you consider yourselves ‘Mormons’?

Daniel

I still have a testimony!! How’s that you say? Well, again I said I left because there was things I wanted to do, that were forbidden in the FLDS, well, forbidden is a strong word, but it was frowned upon. Especially the movies and liking the girls. Basketball was ok, but only in a friendly sporting way, I am very competitive, and I wanted to play more than what seemed healthy I guess. I feel like I still have a testimony of the things I was taught in the FLDS, it just wasn’t strong enough to overpower my other desires, if you know what I mean. As far as hard getting out? Hell no, I wavered in and out for a few months, and had lots of motherly advice, and some of my brothers even took me aside, and in a very caring way admonished me!! But when I finally left, I just left, I told them I was going, they all said “well, do the best you can, were sorry to see you go, as we love you very much” then off i went, I’ve met some since, and they are warm, loving and I can tell they still yearn after me to some extent, but on the same hand, want me to be happy.

Greg Lesher,

No assumptions on my part, Greg. I rely on the stories told by the Lost Boys. Just Google “FLDS Lost Boys” and you will see everything that I see and read everything that I have read. Sad, really, the stories they tell.

I don’t doubt that some people do leave willingly, but what Warren Jeffs did to them is shameful.

Not a Lost Boy,

You will have to forgive me for not believing you, but your words don’t ring true as it relates to the Lost Boys who were thrown out of Colorado City.

The grip of power that Warren had and may still have is more powerful in controlling the lives of FLDS members than you may be willing to admit.

Warren Jeffs ejected these boys from the community, in many cases, for simple, benign violations of religious and community standards.

Brian,

They don’t sound like the lost boys stories, ummm, perhaps you can see my title: I Am NOT A Lost Boy, that’s the name. Furthermore, you can’t see past your own nose, or whatever appendage you care to interject. You think we were all forced out, well, U. Warren reached out to me many times, I was never made to feel like I wasn’t wanted there. Google bullcrap Brian, Google Satanism, Google even Brian and I’m sure you’d find a lot there that you wouldn’t want attributed to you. I spoke cause I’m sick of the disinformation campaign, and whether you believe me or not makes no difference, because what I’ve said is true.

I’ll admit that I don’t know much about the “Lost Boys” to draw any conclusions either way. But, your statement Brian “Warren Jeffs ejected these boys from the community, in may cases, for simple, benign violations of religious and community standards”. I have a problem with your thoughts on this, what you or someone else in “mainstream society” might find benign to others could be major. It’s all in the perspective. To me (as an LDS) smoking cigarettes is a pretty big deal, and it goes against the teachings of the WOW. But, to an outsider who discovers that someone who is LDS wasn’t allowed to enter the temple “simply because they smoked cigarettes” might find that a benign reason for now allowing someone into the temple. Maybe to them Watching Movies (and being admonished and told to obey and not do such a thing) was a good enough reason to expel these boys for disobedience, but to those of us who don’t live their life it might seem a bit stiff to be punished for. But, this is their religious, who am I to tell them what the rules should or should not be?

I do have to confess that, in hindsight, the phone call that started all this looks like pretty flimsy evidence.

Thank you!

So, yes, it does make sense to hold the community accountable for its shared practices.

If I don’t participate in that practice (child-abuse), as many mothers didn’t, why should I be held accountable for it? Isn’t that punishing me for refusing to participate in what you would called the shared practice? Isn’t that punishing the good, as well as the bad? The ones who despise child abuse, and refuse to participate in it, despite the actions of the rest of the community? It seems that these individuals should be honored, not punished, for their defiance of the community norm, right? Then why are they being treated like criminals?

@ Jeff T: It’s an unfortunate procedural necessity. Think of it as like trying to detain members of an unruly crowd. You’ll catch a lot of innocent people who just happened to be hanging around, but as you filter through all the people, you throw the ringleaders into the slammer and let the rest go. It’s a process, it stinks, and it’s the only way to do it if you think a large percentage of the crowd is involved in the crime.

@ Ann Marie Curling

But, this is their religious, who am I to tell them what the rules should or should not be?

For atheists, this is an easy one.

I don’t know about Australia, but I believe in situations like that, U.S. law allows people to be held for only 24 hours without charges. After that, they have to press charges or release them. It is illegal to hold people indefinitely without charges.

I am not a Lost Boy….I’m so glad you spoke up. I am so very tired of hearing from people that listen to media as well. (Media says whatever sells.)

I have sons, each have had to make their own choices. Two were having some troubles. What I mean is they liked girls, listened to bad music and drank with friends. This in turn lead them to be very disrespectful to their father and me. They had to choose, what they wanted in life. I’m so grateful the choice they made was to clean up their life and stay. They are very good men now and such a support to us all. I also have another son who is having to make the same choice. At first he didn’t want to stay, but he is seeing things a little different. He doesn’t want to leave now…he is working on cleaning up his life as well. I pray he can do it. I know he can, but its his choice. All the boys that have left had the same choices.
What the standards are for one religion may not be the same standards for another. We expect perfect obedience. Honoring the parents. Behaving as the “outside” world does, is NOT honoring your parents. We try to raise our children to be clean, have morals, to talk sweetly, to act sweetly, to love one another, to be kind to everyone, pray for everyone, forgive everyone, and let God be the judge, ect. How could this life style be so abusive. You say well underage marriages…. this is not taught nor is it trained. I was legal age when I married my husband who is only two years older then me. Old men??? Where???? There aren’t very many old men left here. But there sure are a lot of young men that are ready to be married, and there are a lot of older girls, in their 20’s that are still waiting to be married. I’m sorry, but the media says a lot of lies. “Judge not that ye be not judged.”

Howdy, folks. It sure is good to see An FLDS mother, and Not a Lost Boy on a blog! I thought I was alone out here!

I started a Blog called FLDSview.blogspot.com and welcome any and all to view and/or plagiarise. I will definately add this site to my link list.

Hey, and by the way Greg Lesher, Moroni is still waiting for his deed!

Daniel, I know most of the “Lost Boys” who were in the news, and would give you any information you wanted about any of them. MOST of those who sat on the steps of the Capital of Salt Lake would consider it an INSULT if you called them a “lost boy” now.

In fact I have contacted several of them, and even the ones who don’t like Uncle Warren are writing letters to the judge in Texas blasting what those Nazi’s are doing.

I guarantee you NOT ONE child will ever appreciate being tortured by the CPS for kidnapping them from their mothers and homes.

Connor, I’ve got a book you aught to read. It is called “Kidnapped From that Land” by Martha Sonntag Bradley. Greg Lesher’s friend that grew up FLDS’s mother is on the cover. (The one hiding behing her mother)

That is a great book.

Pligchild,
Moroni has his land. He just needs to pay someone for the legal description so I can sign it over. He said he would get the survey soon… I have talked to the surveyer for him etc. Any time he is ready, but I cant sign anything over with out a description first? If he does not want it we will buy it back at the same price etc. he paid. But I will not sell land to anyone else that cheep again. Unless we know them like I do Moroni and his family.

PS, Moroni is not the only one I knew who grew up there, have some Barlow friends as well. Some who now disagree with the FLDS but who know what Texas and others have said is BUNK!

We the Members of Sons of Liberty and Daughters of Liberty have signed the Petition!

We have distributed your news videos on Youtube to ALL our Supporters and Contacts. We sent you a Freind Invite as well.

Like you, we also do not support the Beliefs of the FLDS Church, BUT THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!

This issue is a SERIOUS BREECH of the Rule of Law and the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America!

To whom ever is interested in the TRUTH on this issue, and NOT the FALSE PROPAGANDA pumped out daily by the Media.

Please see our Youtube vido on this issue, Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMW7ier9nGg

God Bless and God Speed!
Sons of Liberty
Daughters of Liberty

Sons of Liberty,
I want to thank you for making that video. It shows it the way it is. The more support we have from people outside our religion, I think , the better chances we have of getting the children returned, of a fair trial, of our amendments given back, etc. I am not involved in this horrible kidnapping, but I have a lot of family there.

These families involved are a witness to the world of how we have been trained, to “keep sweet”, live morally clean lives. You will not find a sweeter people anywhere. I’m not speaking of myself, but of those that live on the YFZ ranch. I only hope to be as good as they are.

pligchild- Its good to see and ex-FLDS say so much truth. I did check out your blog. It was amazing, you said, out of what I read, just how it is and was. “Girls escape, Boys are kicked out” L.O.L. Soooo true. Thanks, I will refer more people to it.

Its great to see people that love the truth for truths sake.

Hey, Greg
I apologize if I offended ya, I was just joking. It’s none of my business anyway. I just thought it was cool to see your name as Moroni told me about it.

FLDS Mother- I would love to post a full article from you if you email it to me. Or correct me if you see a mistake

They have put up quite a bit on FLDStruth.org

pligchild- Thanks for the offer. I wouldn’t know what to write. I only write what I feel, and know. The best place for the truth is http://www.FLDSTruth.org as you said.

pligchild- Thanks for your vote of confidence. I just say and write what I feel deep in my heart to be the truth. But the best place for anyone to go for the truth is http://www.FLDSTruth.org
Thanks again.

To “An FLDS Mother” - I’m not FLDS nor LDS…I’m a Baptist. But I have a terrible burden about this situation, and seemingly no one to talk to about it! Why aren’t people devastated about this all over the country?! I can’t imagine the government taking my 3 kids…but actually I can. Soon it won’t be for polygamy or whatever this witch hunt is about. It will be for anyone who calls on the name of Jesus. Is there any way to get in touch with one woman who is going through this? I want to let someone know that even though our doctrines are different, people are praying for them and hurting for them. Thanks, April in Arizona

April,

The FLDS need people to care, need people to do something more than blog, our nation is so virtual by plan!! What does all this blogging do? I love your sentiments, this travesty will not be fixed until people actually get out of their PC armchairs and go out, demonstrate, I believe everyone should go to Texas and demonstrate, shut down businesses, boycott any Texas tourism, something has to make a difference.

What would help is to go after these thugs in court. They can be held accountiable. And I do not mean using a lawyer. I for one would like to help some one or others who have not “sworn to hold the court above all others”, such as a lawyer. But someone who holds God above all others. Who serves one master. Any one can bring an action against a law breaking judge, anyone. This is the reason we have title 42 sec. 1983 and Quo Warranto actions. I guess my question would be, why do these parrents just sit back and put their trust in lawyers who drain their pockets? Why not use their money and do their own law research? There are people out there that will help you who have wone every case they have brought to the court system. They know the ins and outs. They understand law and have removed these renegade judges. When you stand before the Judgement seat of Christ who will you have represent you? No lawyer will do, you must stand on your own! Now is the time for learning to do just that.

What is your suggestion Greg? And how would we go about it?

April-
I have a sister and several sister-in-laws involved. I personally know most of those ladies involved.
I don’t have an address to send anything to them, but when there is a ride going there, I send letters and as soon as we know the government wont stop things, I will be sending things to them as well. They are in need of things. It wasn’t reported, but last week the law came back in and took personal belongings. Like under clothing. What would they want with that???? I don’t know.
But if you want to say something to them, I would past it on to them. They had an email address on http://www.captivefldschildren.org/index.php
but I guess they removed it. There is an email address for Willie Jessop.
willie@captivefldschildren.org
That might be a great way to let those sweet ladies know that there are people out there that care. Thanks April for your thoughts and concerns.
I had a thought, we need someone famous to do a fund raiser for the cause.

Greg… Where do we begin????

I just noticed that the FLDS have a song on their website

Here is the link:
http://www.captivefldschildren.com/Music.php

Yes, that song is sooo very sweet. When you listen to it, just think of those poor, dear, innocent children, being riped out of their mothers arms, crying “Mother, Mother, I need you.” Think of those dear, sweet mothers, with empty aching arms, longing for their dear little ones.

Not only for the FLDS mothers…that song could apply to ANY mother who has lost her child! It is a beautiful song!!!

Please sign this petition!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Prayers-for-the-Captive-FLDS-Children

I couldn’t agree more!
God bless ALL the children!

I’d like them to know that I care. God hears their cries to Him. Ask them how I can help. I’m already praying for them continually. If I can send them something or write letters of encouragement, that would be great. My email address is stephens.april@yahoo. com. If you could email me privately I’ll give you my home address.

I like “Not a Lost Boy”’s suggestion about demonstrating. I’m a homesteader with a small farm and can’t go to Texas to demonstrate, but I sure wouldn’t mind organizing something in Tucson. If anyone reading this blog is here, please email me at the above address and let’s see what we can do!

I just had a thought…why was Connor sent to Scotland? Do you think the LDS higher-uppers didn’t want him here in the US, because he is so strongly against the raid on the YFZ ranch?

Whattaya Think?

Maybe he’s referencing the myth that Benson was sent to Europe because his political views were bothersome… I’ve heard that so many times. Whenever I quote Benson on a political topic, I hear, “Well, ya know that the brethren disliked his politics so much that’s why they sent him to Europe.” Bogus…

Jeff,

That is exactly how I took wondering’s comment. I got a good chuckle out of it, rather than assume it was a serious conspiracy theory.

Connor,

Thanks for standing up for these people. They are a polite, peaceful, spirit-filled people, just trying to do right by God. They deserve our moral support, our prayers, our petitions to the government, and our monetary support if we can (www dot captivefldschildren dot org).

: ) Sorry Connor, I did mean it as a tease. I just shouldn’t have been critical in my teasing. I, too, am grateful for what you have done and are doing.

Connor,

I agree with your anti-collectivist sentiments. I always treat individuals as exactly that: individuals. They deserve nothing less. No one should get a free pass (or a pre-conceived condemnation) based on their religion or any other association they may have. I am LDS and I know plenty of LDS members who do not make me proud of my fellow church members.

I also know, personally, ex-members of the FLDS church–some who belong to no church, and some who have joined the LDS church. These people I know have only good things to say about their former church. They left on their own, and hold no bad feelings toward the FLDS church, and they maintain their relationships with their family members who remain FLDS.

I also know members of other fundamentalist Mormon groups and can say I have only ever felt a spirit of peace and love amidst them. I believe them to be fine examples of saints of the Lord.

I do not believe that the doctrines or practices of the FLDS church are such that they promote abuse or law-breaking. I believe you will find people in every church, including in my own LDS congregation, who will use warped interpretation of religion to justify their own activities.

However, as a rule, I do believe the FLDS are a polite, peaceful, kind, and spirit filled people. Of course there are exceptions. But the entire religion should not be judged by exceptions. We would not be happy if the LDS church’s reputation or every Mormon’s personal reputation were to be influenced by the fact that some LDS people have done very bad things (think Mark Hoffman, Ted Bundy, or even the LDS missionaries recently photographed themselves vandalizing a Catholic shrine).

Connor, as you likely know, Pres. Hinckley was fond of talking about how the LDS people as a whole are hard-working, industrious, kind hearted, generous people. Would you suppose Pres. Hinckley was making broad collectivist statements? I offered my comments in the same spirit as Pres. Hinckley offered similar comments about his/our own LDS people.

Also, was Elder Cook was being rather “collectivist” when he recently stated that “Church members do not live in isolated compounds, arrange marriages, dress in old-fashioned clothing or wear unusual hairstyles”?

Hmmm. I know I’ve seen quite a few weird hairstyles in my own ward. Someone should alert the first presidency! I’ve also known a few LDS members who have “strongly favored” their children marrying a certain person. As for old fashioned clothing? I’m sure there are more than just the old ladies of my ward who wear the same things they wore 80 years ago. I even know some LDS people who own their own “isolated compounds”! (Seriously–though, like the FLDS in Texas, they usually refer to them as “ranches” rather than the loaded word “compund”.)

Elder Cook, continuing his collectivist statement, also said: “Rather, they are participating members of the communities in which they live throughout the world, get married at the average age of 23 and are well educated.”

I know some LDS members who are complete deadbeats. They barely attend church or go to work, let alone being “participating members of the[ir] communities.” And, it is also quite collectivist to say LDS are “well educated”. My wife was 18 and I was 22 when we married. I knew a couple in one of my old wards who married at 17 (both of them).

So, if my statements about the FLDS–as a people and as a religion–being a spirit filled people are collectivist, then so were Elder Cook and Pres. Hinckley, right?

Of course, your analysis is a good one. I just maintain that if Elder Cook or Pres. Hinckley can brag about their “kids” or their LDS associates, that I feel justified in bragging about my friends who are either current or former FLDS and/or Fundamentalists who are exemplary Saints.

We should all strive to live Christ like lives, even though some in our midst choose to do otherwise, or stumble and need a helping hand back to their feet. We should all show the love and light of Christ in all we do. I can say without any reservation that every person I know who is a former or current fundamentalist Mormon can be said to be striving to live a Christ-like life.

I believe we are bound to honor the 11th article of faith and, as we learn in the final article of faith, we should also seek to find the good in all people who try to live according to their understanding of God’s requirements for mankind. Those I know from fundamentalist backgrounds would agree with me on this, also.

I just re-read my second-to-last comment. I mentioned the ages my wife and I married at and some other people who married younger than the average age that Elder Cook touted, but I put it in the wrong spot, after the comment about education. Whoops. So much for proof reading. Perhaps I should pursue another degree, since the first one didn’t seem to do the trick

Yes Ronald- we agree. We are all striving to know who God is and how to become like him. I’m sure grateful you know the ones that have left that are not bitter. I have brothers that have left. They chose to leave. They are not bitter. They moved away so that they could get away from the bitter ones. You know, we cant talk bad about anyone, if we truly are trying to become like our Heavenly Father. We forgive all men, and let God be the judge.

Yes, there have been some who have done wrongs in our religion. But show me a religion where all the people are living perfect, besides Enoch’s people.
When someone is found out doing a wrong, they are asked to repent. If they do not, they are asked to leave. They don’t have to. But the family is taken away and most of the time, given to another man. The wife(wives) and children, have a choice to go with him or stay. I know of some who have stayed with the man. So……that was her choice. If the man has done a crime, he is turn over to the law to be handled. We don’t allow abuse of any kind. We are taught to train in love.
As for our “Weird” hair styles, the Lord says we should adorn our selves with our hair. And as for the clothes, I wear what I wear because I like it. It covers my body. We are taught to keep our bodies covered. I would not do this except I know it is right. I feel it is right. No one has made me do any thing I didn’t want to.
I have as much or more freedom that any female in the “outside” world. I can do what ever I chose, but I also know right from wrong. When you look at the reports and videos of these ladies, you can see, they look like pure ladies.

So, instead of just talk, what can be done?????
Its been over a month now….these children need their mothers, and they need them.
If you have any ideas, pleas speak out.
If you haven’t checked out Captive FLDS children lately, you need to http://www.captivefldschildren.org/Music.php
there is some new songs on there.
Thanks eveyone for your support.