Comments on: FLDS Petition Conclusion

By: Janet Walgren

Janet Walgren — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:11:20 +0000

I just finished reading the book Escape by Carolyn Jessop. It is a compelling read and a must read before opinions are set in stone. I highly recommend it. It is the first book I have read in one sitting in decades. Sometimes paradigm shifts are very valuable in gaining understanding. I hope you will take the opportunity to read it.

By: Connor

Connor — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:40:33 +0000

This post has been updated w/ Senator Bennett’s letter, which I received today.

By: Connor

Connor — Fri, 23 May 2008 01:11:09 +0000

A follow-up article to the one posted in comment #103 can be found here, where the reader will learn of additional failure on the part of Texas to get their facts straight.

By: Rebecca Loos

Rebecca Loos — Thu, 22 May 2008 21:03:31 +0000

Believe it or not, Katherine, I’m glad they’re getting their kids back too. I suspect that any pregnant underage girls will be kept, (if there are any), but I was never claiming that they children should be permantly removed from their homes. I simply believe that it is better to err on behalf of the safety of children than it is to err on behalf of the sanctity of the family unit. I STILL hope that any and all perpetrators of underage marriages is prosecuted and that the practice is finally eliminated.

YOU had a bad experience with CPS which colors your opinions. I had a bad experience the opposite way which colors mine. (Specifically, my brother and sister and I were returned to our physically abusive father and more beatings and trauma. My sister committed suicide about 10 years ago. I battle debilitating depression. My brother is a younger version of my father. Keeping our family together in NO WAY helped any of us.) However, as always, my concern is for the well being of the children. I always expected that most of the children would go back to their families.

By: Katherine Richards

Katherine Richards — Thu, 22 May 2008 18:56:15 +0000

rebecca
your right he isnt one of the parents, its people like him they should be going after. not innocent people. And i agree with April it is obvious you have a grudge against FLDS.

I am so glad they are getting their children back soon. CPS coudlnt prove any type of abuse going on.

By: Rebecca Loos

Rebecca Loos — Thu, 22 May 2008 15:02:10 +0000

So April, it’s okay to exercise my first ammendment rights here if I agree with you, but not if I don’t? What ever happened to an exchange of ideas? Also, I don’t actually have a grudge against the FLDS — I do, however, feel very strongly about marrying off and impregnating underage women. Child abuse is an issue I am passionate about because I’ve experienced it and seen it directed at children I love.

Katherine, I don’t think CPS is the one to investigate the man you are referring to since he is not these girls’ parent. I’m optimistic that the proper authorities will be attempting to catch and incarcerate this man, since he already has convictions. However, his prosecution or lack of it doesn’t really have a bearing on the FLDS situation.

As for proving child abuse, they have 400+ children they are evaluating — if they came forward right away with whatever evidence they may have gathered they would be blasted for not taking enough time for a proper evaluation. In short, there will always be complaints about CPS’ behavior because it is always a traumatic and painful experience when they get involved. I will stand by my primary statement though — what is important is making sure that the children have been and will be in a safe environment. I sincerely expect most of the children to be returned home. I sincerely hope that the practice of underage “spiritual” marriages will be ended.

By: April Stephens

April Stephens — Thu, 22 May 2008 13:41:11 +0000

Hi, Rebecca.

You’ve stated you’re opinion at length and rather completely. You seem to have a grudge against the FLDS, and possibly anyone who would pass on their faith to their children. Thanks for your opinion. I think we’d all agree that we’d like you to express it at length on another forum. Civil rights have been trampled, media has been fed or is feeding lies about the victims, and you’re on their side. I don’t care to read any more of what you think.

Thanks for exercising your first amendment rights…

By: Katherine Richards

Katherine Richards — Thu, 22 May 2008 06:48:51 +0000

IF there is child abuse in this then WHY has no one been arrested? they can’t prove it!!!!!! And Homeschooling IS selective schooling. YOU decide what your child learns, so that is selective learning. Most of those cildren are well educated. Just because they learn differntly than you and i who are we to judge. So far everything the CPS have said are lies. What about the fact that the MENTAL HEALTH workers checked the children out and stated that there was NO CHILD ABUSE cause if their was they would be acting completely different. SINCE that is what THEY SAID CPS didnt like the fact that was their reports so they fired them two weeks later. ” they were being to compassioned”

they should be with there mothers, since there is NO EVIDENCE showing ABUSE.

Instead why dont you focus on the ones who are abusing 14 to 17 year olds that are getting away with it and i can think of one guy right now. MARK BARNWELL JR he has a bunch of 14 to 17 year olds on his myspace page who he talks to. AND guess what it is against his probabtion he already beat and raped 3 girls. Who knows if there is a 4 the state is too busy for ones who have NO EVIDENCE of abusing their kids.

By: Rebecca Loos

Rebecca Loos — Thu, 22 May 2008 06:17:59 +0000

Oh, but let me add, I agree completely that if the state has ignored valid birth certificates and drivers lisences as evidence of age, without some real indication of fraud, that they have overstepped their bounds grossly and the individuals responsible should be disciplined or fired from their positions. However, I don’t know what kind of documentation has been offered at all, simply that the FLDS are now claiming that they offered documents to prove ages. Since I read an article where one woman was claiming she couldn’t answer the questions about her name and her children’s names because legally her name was one name but she answered to another, I have to wonder once again at the veracity of the claims of documentation. How hard is it to say, I was born Mary Smith but I go by Sarah Jessop? Or whatever. Once again, I am not convinced. I believe that FLDS is scrambling to cover their practice of marrying off underaged women and I believe anyone who knows of this behavior and ignores it is an abomination before God. “If any cause harm to come to these little ones it would be better that a millstone were tied around their neck and they be thrown into the sea.” Sound familiar?

By: Rebecca Loos

Rebecca Loos — Thu, 22 May 2008 06:07:05 +0000

Yes, I have been in CPS care, in two different families, as a matter of fact. Unfortunately, I wasn’t kept in CPS care but was sent home to a father who beat me with a belt until I had bleeding welts. I also happen to know EXACTLY how bad the pain of a ruptured eardrum is — the last time it happened to me I was 12 years old and I remember it vividly. It’s too bad that you had a bad experience, but that does not make every foster home an evil place, nor does it make the entire CPS system evil. As for homeschooling, I homeschooled my son through high school because he was being teased and tormented in school. He went on to ace his GEDs on his very first try. Now how many of the FLDS kids could do the same? I am not against homeschooling — I’m against selective schooling. As long as those kids know the basics of reality — such as the fact that there isn’t a shred of evidence that Native Americans are of Hebrew descent, much less that they and blacks are “cursed and unclean”, then I have no problem. If they are that well educated, then regular testing will prove it. However, when the FLDS dump their boys and young men in our society with NO practical skills to get them by, then once again I must cry abuse. And saying that the boys wouldn’t go to school is just balony. Maybe they should try excommunicating them at 10 years old, then, or whatever age they supposedly quit going to school. Oh, and ranting with the caps lock on doesn’t make your arguments any more valid. You have issues with CPS, I can understand that — I do myself. I’ve seen CPS in my state go after mothers who’ve worked hard to be good parents and ignore terrible parents because the children had issues that daunted them. (One boy I knew would poop his pants at 13 and sit in it and he painted the bathroom of his foster home with poop. So CPS left him with his seriously unbalanced mother.) However, I will say it again — impregnanting underage girls is child abuse of the worst kind. This practice is more than enough reason to remove the children until that charge is fully examined. Because of the excessively insular nature of the compound, there really isn’t any other way to protect these at-risk children until the offenders are found out and dealt with. And since all the members of the compound had to know it was going on, they are all accomplices. They put their religious beliefs above the welfare of the young girls in the compound. I’m sorry, but that’s simply wrong. The issue, as I’ve said over and over again, is the welfare of the children. Religion does NOT trump child safety. The younger a girl gets pregnant, the more at risk she is. And if it’s so evil to remove these children and place them in foster care, then why isn’t it evil to remove women and children from their “husband” and father and give them to another man simply because the original man has been excommunicated? A little hypocritical, aren’t we?

By: Katherine Richards

Katherine Richards — Thu, 22 May 2008 03:29:21 +0000

Rebecca Loos,

Have you EVER BEEN in child protective services????

I have, want to know my experience in this what you so call GREAT service? I was four or five and my sister was 3, and we were tooken. We stayed there and my sister cried all night cause she wanted our mom. They put me in a regular bed and put my sister in a CRIB ok. My sister was crying so they warmed a bottle up and shoved it in my sister’s mouth. My sister NEVER had a bottle. I Tried to calm her down and tried to be the older sister and take care of my sister. We got to visit my mom and the SHOVED US out of the room. My sister had an ear infection. They DIDN’T give her, her medicine. GUESS WHAT HAPPENED MY SISTER’S EAR DRUM RUPTURED. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW BAD THAT HURTS, AND YOU SAY ITS FOR THE BEST OF OUR CHILDREN. PLEASE TELL ME HOW? IF THEY CANT GIVE THEM THEIR MEDS FOR AN INFECTION HOW IS THAT IN THE BEST INTEREST? When we got back with our mom we had LICE! LICE, WE NEVER HAD LICE. OH AND THEY TRIED KEEPING THE CLOTHES WE WORE OVER THERE, MY MOM MADE THEM GIVE OUR CLOTHES BACK BECAUSE THE CLOTHES THEY GAVE US TO WEAR HAD HOLES AND EVERYTHING.
THANKS TO THEIR SUPPOSEDLY CARE! MY SISTER AND I ARE AFRAID OF COPS. TO THE POINT THAT MY SISTER WOULDNT NOT TALK TO THEM WHEN CHILD CARE CALLED THE CPS WHEN ONE OF THEIR KIDS THROUGH A TOY AT MY SISTER WHICH CAUSED HER BRUISE ON HER CHEECK. THEY HAD TO GET ONE OF THE MILITARY POLICE TO TALK TO HER. AND SHE TOLD THEM WHAT HAPPENED.
YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE IN CPS CARE. SO DONT EVEN SAY CPS IS GREAT WHEN YOU NEVER BEEN IN CPS CARE.

AND JUST CAUSE SOMEONE IS HOMESCHOOLED DOESNT MEAN THEY ARE UNEDUCATED. OK I WAS HOMESCHOOLED AND HAVE GONE TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL AND I CAN PERSONALLY TELL YOU I HAVE LEARNED MORE IN HOMESCHOOL THAN A PUBLIC SCHOOL COULD EVER TEACH. WHAT IS SAD IS IF THEY PUT THEM IN PUBLIC SCHOOL THE CHILDREN WILL BE BORED CAUSE THEY WILL BE SO AHEAD IN SCHOOL.

THIS IS A WITCH HUNT! WHATS NEXT ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARENT IMMUNIZING THEIR CHILDREN ARE ABUSING THEIR CHILDREN.

By: Rebecca Loos

Rebecca Loos — Thu, 22 May 2008 02:59:12 +0000

Even though the intitial call is apparently a hoax; even though the number of underaged pregnancies are far lower than the state has indicated, the fact is that there ARE underage “marriages” and pregnancies and that you members of FLDS knew it was going on. Underage pregnancy and marriage IS child abuse. At the very minimum it is unhealthy for a girl to start giving birth at young ages. I was told by my gynecologist when I was pregnant with my first child that biologically a woman should be not less that 21 and preferably 25 years of age before becoming pregnant. Wrap it any way you want, if you people are marrying off and impregnating these girls you are being abusive. I don’t care what your prophet told you, God will NOT bless anyone for such actions. As someone who was a fit mother, and had my child removed from my care anyway, I still say that the state has done the right thing. The important issue here is the safety of the children, not your hurt pride that someone has questioned the madates of your prophets. And just what do you have to say about the many reports of men and young men who’ve been thrown out of the compound, of the women courageous enough to try and leave with their children to save them from what THEY claim was abuse? Are they all lying too? An amazing amount of people are lying, aren’t they, but I’m sure we can believe every word that comes from the FLDS because they would NEVER lie or evade the truth. (By the way, I got my child back. I am convinced that it was because I proved by my actions and uncomplaining cooperation with the authorities that I cared more for my child’s well being than anything else in this world. You think this system is bad, try dealing with England’s CPS like I did. Parents have NO rights. I’m not complaining about that because in my mind, it’s all about the kids. Parents, religion, and personal opinions don’t matter, just the safety and well being of the children.)

By: An FLDS Mother

An FLDS Mother — Wed, 21 May 2008 22:13:27 +0000

Rebecca Loos:

SHAME ON YOU for believing CPS and media lies. Go to the people who KNOW the truth. The FLDS.
Check out FLDS websites. Learn the truth before you judge us.

http://www.captivefldschildren.org/index.php
http://www.fldstruth.org/
http://www.truthwillprevail.org/

We aren’t what CPS , media and ex-members say we are. We have been speaking out, but only the honest in heart will look and listen for the truth.

By: FLDSer

FLDSer — Wed, 21 May 2008 21:31:17 +0000

Whoa Ms. Loos – Thanks for “weighing in” and it is interesting that you are getting “after” the FLDS for what the CPS continues to say they did or didn’t do and yet, from everything that has come up in or out of court it looks like CPS is the one continously changing their own “lies”.

For some reason – you and many others seem think that the FLDS mothers and children are stupid, dumb, uneducated! All the accusations against them by CPS and others are only that – accusations. Whenever it has come up in court and from what we are seeing is that it is CPS that has lied from the get go. These FLDS parents have been providing birth certificates for their children from the beginning – and CPS has chosen to ignore or disbelieve state issued documents.

So before you jump on the “anti” FLDS bandwagon consider that for the FLDS “EVERYTHING” they say or don’t say is being misconstrued and twisted against them by the CPS whose proven lies you are inclined to believe.

And by the by – I have a high school diploma and 1 year college towards a (gasp) teaching certificate. Right now, we have a 13 year old just finishing 8th grade, a 15 year old finishing 9th grade, and a 16 finished with high-school about to get her GED diploma. ALL homeschooled! Go figure! They have all been state “tested” and shown above-average in their scores!

I think you need do a little studying into the FLDS before believing every lie you read or hear about them! And for your info – the helpful guidelines given by the CPS stated that the FLDS childrens’ educational intelligence level was higher that the norm!

Oh and check out GritsforBreakfast’s blog very interesting info on more CPS lies.

By: Rebecca Loos

Rebecca Loos — Wed, 21 May 2008 07:21:09 +0000

After reading all of this I have to weigh in on a lot of what you’ve all been writing. First of all I want to say that I AM a mother who had my child removed from me for several months even though I had never abused him. It was horrible and I hated it. I was also deeply grateful that someone cared enough for my son’s welfare to do whatever was necessary to protect him. With that in mind I say, SHAME ON YOU! Instead of whining about how horrible this is you should be giving the state all the help it needs to determine just who may or may not have actually participated in the abuse of those children. Honestly, is there ANY excuse for a mother NOT to be able to say, “This child, this child and this child is mine. This man is their father?” No, it isn’t. Yet these mothers did not do so when they had the chance. Why? I don’t care what you believe is religiously right or not, if you’re living in a country and state you have an obligation to follow their laws. If these young girls were being “spiritually” married under the legal age, regardless of the ages of the “husband” it is child abuse and rape. The state needed to remove these children in order to protect them while they determined the veracity of the suspected abuse. As a parent you should be grateful that someone is willing to do as much for your child and helping them sort things out as quickly as possible. I am well aware that Child Protective Services are not always right and that individuals within it can be on power trips, but as a whole I think these people are trying to do the best they can for these children. I got my son back after the agency that removed him was able to determine that I was not a threat to him. I was allowed unlimited visitation with him (which was against that agency’s policy) because I made it clear from the start that my son’s welfare was more important to me than my own feelings and desire to have him with me. My son is a grown man now, a wonderful father, and he was NOT harmed by his short stay in protective custody. I sincerely hope that any parents who have not harmed their children will get them back, but since I believe that the lack of education many of the “homeschooled” children demonstrate is proof of abuse, I think that there will be fewer of them than the FLDS would have us believe. I firmly believe that at a minimum there should be yearly testing of these kids to prove that they’re being given the minimum standard of education. In a nutshell, those children have rights too, and their rights trump any “religious” rights that you want to cry about. Practice your religion all you want, but don’t allow it to harm your children.

By: Katherine Richards

Katherine Richards — Wed, 21 May 2008 05:14:50 +0000

Courts have started, I am hoping and praying that all of the children get to go home with their mothers. This is messed up, what happened to religion and government stays seperate?
It will be good for the children to go back with their mothers it is what they need the most. They maybe be nervous around cops and think are we going back every time they see one. But i am hoping it stops after they get home and no more of this crap happens again to them.

By: wonderingwanderer

wonderingwanderer — Tue, 20 May 2008 00:32:42 +0000

Senator Hatch’s reply reminds me of a certain US president’s words to the Prophet Joseph.

“Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you.”

Methinks our nation’s leaders are afraid (too selfish) to stand up for truth and righteousness.

By: Ronald Schoedel

Ronald Schoedel — Sat, 17 May 2008 04:10:55 +0000

FLDS Mother,

Thank you for your kind words and comments. I have been reading the various new official FLDS websites (all three of them) and have referred many friends and associates to them for “the rest of the story.”

I should clarify that I do not find anything “weird” about your manner of dress or hair-stylings. In fact, they are quite similar to those chosen by women in other conservative Christian denominations. I find nothing at all weird about them. The world, on the other hand, has plenty of weird hair and clothing choices that I would never choose for myself nor want my children to choose. For me and my family, we have made conservative choices in hair and clothing styles as well.

= =

Connor,

Do you suppose this case will eventually come up as a “proof” of why the nation “needs REAL ID”? Apparently old fashioned IDs like birth certificates and drivers licenses just don’t cut it anymore.

By: Connor

Connor — Sat, 17 May 2008 00:40:19 +0000

Following up on comments 18-21, the AP is reporting about the age dispute taking place. CPS apparently is getting their numbers mixed up and refusing to recognizing valid government-issued certificates showing the adults' age.

By: Hope and praying

Hope and praying — Fri, 16 May 2008 08:06:24 +0000

Good Job Connor, my mom and i have been following up on the FLDS. I hope they give them back to their mother. I know how it is to have something unjust happened to a child. I was 5 when i was taken from my parents for something my parents SUPPOSEDLY did. I spent 48 hours in child protective services. And since then i freak out when a cop comes by. It severely traumitize kids being ripped from their mother and i was only way from my mom for 48 hours i cant imagine 30 days. I have and will pray that the children get back with their mother.