June 10th, 2008

Kirby Heyborne’s Promotion of Babylon

A recent commercial for Miller, a beer company, has been causing a small stir amongst some groups of Latter-day Saints. The commercial, which can be viewed here, features LDS actor Kirby Heyborne, made famous from such movies as “The Singles Ward” and “The Best Two Years”.

The commercial features Kirby as one of two men who are trying to find out where bottles of beer are being opened, so that they can presumably join in the fun. The other actor is the lead person pursuing the alcohol with Kirby in tow. Upon finding their desired bounty, both men grab a bottle of the beer.

Some of the more orthodox Latter-day Saints have expressed disgust and disappointment when viewing Heyborne in the promotion of an item that is prohibited by the code of conduct to which he claims to adhere. Is their reaction justified?

As some have noted, the situation is complicated when viewed in light of other similar situations. Those who condemn Heyborne must likewise oppose Steve Young and other LDS athletes who play games on Sunday, for example. Granted, their line of profession sometimes requires that they do so, whereas an actor can (as I understand it) decline any offered work they prefer not to do.

In this situation, people are quick to cite 1 Thessalonians 5:22, where Paul counsels us to abstain from all appearance of evil. A review of other translations of the same verse seems to indicate that Paul isn’t explicitly saying that we should stay away from the appearance of evil (think of the classic example of a colored cup at a party, where yours is filled with water whereas all others have alcohol), but instead that we should shun evil in all its forms.

That then begs the question: is the appearance of evil a form of evil? Or, more specifically, if it is evil (being contrary to God’s commandments) to consume alcohol, is it likewise evil (less so, no doubt) to act as if you are doing so?

Elder Neal A. Maxwell discussed the importance of appearance as it relates to shunning evil:

We will find that not only are there strategic signposts of morality, but there are also tactical standards of morality with which we must be concerned if we are to preserve our identity in the way that is most helpful to us and to our fellowmen. We must not unintentionally assume the appearance of evil in its various cultural costumes and dispensational dimensions. The length of Samson’s hair not only gave him strength, it set him apart from the Philistines, whose passion for alcohol Samson did not share either. The prophet will always help us to set the tone of tactical morality when such is needed to set us apart from some contemporaries. Paul did this for female Church members in Corinth, counseling them, I am told, so they would not be confused with prostitutes because of uncovered hair. Thus, the principles do not change, but as Dr. Daniel H. Ludlow has said, the practices may vary. We can always look to the prophet for guidance with regard to these tactical dimensions of morality. (Neal A. Maxwell, via Quoty)

As this quote explains, one of the important reasons for abstaining from evil—both in public and private—is to maintain a separate identity that lets others (and perhaps more importantly, ourselves) know Who we represent. That identity is blurred when we associate with things we should not, whether it is “acting” or otherwise. Calling something “art” does not give us spiritual license to set our standards aside while we consume, participate in, or represent evil. Elder Spencer J. Condie noted:

When one has a disposition to do good continually, the natural consequence will be to “abstain from all appearance of evil” (1 Thes. 5:22) and not to “look upon sin save it were with abhorrence” (Alma 13:12). (Spencer J. Condie, A Disposition to Do Good Continually)

Doing good continually implies representing the Lord’s standard at all times. Likewise, King Mosiah counseled his people—and us—to stand as a witness of God at all times, and in all things, and in all places. The film studio or stage certainly counts as one of “all places”.

Perhaps the best litmus test for the righteousness of our actions is to sincerely ask ourselves if we could have the Savior by our side at that very moment. Just as the Spirit is easily offended, so is a jealous God who has not commanded us in all things, but instead has given us the agency to act, waiting to see if we will obey.

Two years ago, Heyborne said (regarding his acting career) “I will be doing stuff Kirby Heyborne doesn’t do.” It is my opinion that this stance is at odds with the Lord’s command to be His representative (doing what He would do) at all times and in all places.

For the potentially offended reader (of which there are many, it seems, from comments I have read on this issue elsewhere): This post is not meant to judge Kirby (whom I do not know) but instead to discuss the issue of a Latter-day Saint acting in a capacity where he participates in things that go against the Lord’s standard. I’m sure Kirby is a great guy, but that is besides the point.

51 Responses to “Kirby Heyborne’s Promotion of Babylon”

  1. Bryson Jack
    June 10, 2008 at 5:20 pm #

    This kind of thing seems to be an epidemic. Julianne Hough seems to be uncomfortable here at her bikini shoot, contrary to her father’s wishes, but trudges on anyway. The Men on a Mission calendar is more than embarrassing to our faith IMO, and then my two pre-teen daughters informed me they were sad to see Benji Schwimmer drop his pants on TV. I can’t verify that one online, but that is what they told me. One important aspect of this story is considering how it affects the youth of the church. What kind of message does it send as to how an LDS person should act in the media? Do we want our kids to think that when it comes to professions, we can do things that we normally wouldn’t when it comes to making money, that God will uphold such at the last day and that if we are wrong, God will beat us with a few stripes and we will be saved? This life is a test. Choose the right, not Babylon.

  2. Bryson Jack
    June 10, 2008 at 7:38 pm #

    I need to retract the bit about Benji “dropping his pants”. I asked my girls about it again when I got home and they clarified the situation. They said that he wore his pants in a way that you could clearly see his underwear, which they found to be improper and a let down. I wasn’t too impressed with the simulated sex acts in the hip hop dancing routines. I am no prude, but I have higher expectations of those who have been to the temple, served missions, and represent the church in the media. It makes me sad when people who represent us, and should be a peculiar people, give into the pressure to be normal or worldly. I’m sure Satan tells them that they are helping to make the church more main stream and more palatable for the rest of the world. Boyd K. Packer referred to television as the large and spacious building, and I would have to agree.

  3. Helaman
    June 11, 2008 at 7:14 am #

    Didn’t he smoke in that WW2 movie he was in?

    What about Ricky (Shroeder) playing a gay man in the remake of the Andromeda Strain…

    and I’m sure we all could list a number of evil appearances by other LDS actors, which is a shame – to me, it’s a real let down. A good example of living your religion and not, a breach of integrity.

    The position that actors have on younger people, there’s a lot of responsibility. They can deny it if they want, but they’re actions are sucked up by lots of kids and young adults in the LDS world and it teaches them what? That’s it’s okay to sell out to the highest bidder. Whether Kirby drinks, or Ricky is gay – someone is going to think that it’s ok to do so because of it.

    I would argue the point that Satan is telling that it’s making the church more mainstream, they know that drinking and smoking, or portraying of sinful behaviors/lifestyles is completely against the Gospel. I’m more cynical than that and chalk it up to pride and money.

  4. Jeff T
    June 11, 2008 at 9:20 am #

    I personally didn’t mind Kirby smoking in “Saints and Soldiers” (don’t ask me why… I really don’t know, it just seemed more like a historical enactment than an endorsement of tobacco, so I didn’t worry about it), but this new commercial does really bother me. A lot.

    I almost wonder if the job was offered to Kirby deliberately, knowing that it may open a door to a market among an LDS population. Actors do have a lot of influence over young people.

  5. Connor
    June 11, 2008 at 9:43 am #

    Regarding the smoking in “Saints and Soldiers” (according to Kirby, he used herbal cigarettes from a costume shop), some have offered the argument that there is a difference between acting in a markedly fictional role and acting in an advertisement for a product.

    The fictional realm might entail somebody killing another person as part of the script. Since God commanded us not to kill, is this a bad thing? Or is the depiction of it not as bad when it’s clearly understood that it’s fiction? The argument might be taken further to claim that so long as the actor is not actually sinning (in this case, not killing the other actor), it’s not necessarily evil. Contrast that to an actor fornicating on TV, where they are physically partaking of the “fictional” act being depicted.

    Now with that argument it may be said that as long as Kirby did not physically partake of the alcohol, there is no problem. But the difference that I see is one of perception: is Kirby part of a fictional story that teaches principles, morals, plot, and consequences of actions? Or is he lending his personality to endorse (implicitly or otherwise) a product? In the latter scenario, I think it doesn’t matter if he actually drank the alcohol or not (I’m presuming he didn’t), since through his character in the commercial he is offering an endorsement of the activity itself.

  6. Helaman
    June 11, 2008 at 10:56 am #

    “I look at it as Heavenly Father was blessing me with a way to support my family and stay afloat for another year,” he said.

    From the man himself…

    Granted I’m not in his shoes, but I’ll bite – how does he know that it wasn’t a test of faith? I mean I’m not rich, we’re barely getting by in my home, but it doesn’t mean I would start selling products that go against the word of wisdom, nor do I think that Heavenly Father would want someone to. I can’t find the quote, but I know I learned that Joseph Smith said “The ends don’t justify the means” (can anyone corroborate that?).

    See I know he’s joking with comment “Heyborne has also filmed a Snickers candy bar commercial, also due out in September, with the 1980s TV and film star Mr. T. “But there’s chocolate in it, so people might get upset about it because there’s caffeine in (chocolate),” he said with a laugh.” but to me it comes off as almost trying to justify that he did do the beer commercial.

  7. Connor
    June 11, 2008 at 2:49 pm #

    The article that Helaman quoted from in the first line, featuring an interview w/ Kirby about this issue, can be found here.

  8. Helaman
    June 12, 2008 at 6:52 am #

    ahhh sorry – should have linked to the story…

    Thanks for catching that Connor.

  9. Amore Vero
    June 12, 2008 at 1:47 pm #

    This is just another example of how so many LDS are trading their birthright for a mess of pottage & riches & especially the praise of the world. The Prophets have forewarned us that most everyone today, including the LDS, will be deceived by these precepts & philosophies of men to excuse oneself as the justified exception, except the few humble followers of Christ who still can discern & abhor evil in all it’s forms & deceptions.

    As far as the litmus test for righteousness in asking ourselves if we can do something & still maintain the spirit, I feel our true safety is to ask ourselves if what we want to do goes against the Prophets teachings in any way & if so then don’t do it & to never consider ourselves the justified exception but to always follow the Prophet with exactness. This is our only safety.

    For unfortunately most LDS people who do even really evil things like any form of Adultery, Abuse of spouse or children, Abandonment & Divorce of spouse or Abortion & Birth Control, etc., let alone lower their standards in business dealings, usually feel they are righteous & that they are the rare justifed exception & feel that the Spirit & the Lord is ok with them doing it, or even told them to do it. Not that that is not possible, but again it is prophesied most everyone will be deceived to do or support these evils.

    I truely feel it is rampant among all, even card carrying active LDS members to say that Lord told them it’s ok to abuse or abandon or commit adultery on their spouse, they just don’t use those words to describe what they are doing. It’s so sad & worrysome to see so many get so past feeling as to call evil good & good evil.

  10. Yin
    June 12, 2008 at 4:07 pm #

    Amore,

    Not to veer off from the subject of the post too much, but I had to address this. Birth control is a “really evil thing”? Where are you getting this from?

  11. Stephen Palmer
    June 13, 2008 at 7:09 am #

    The first thing that came to my mind upon learning about this commercial was a talk given by Dallin H. Oaks entitled “Brother’s Keeper.”

    Here are a few quotes from it:

    “Christian standards should also apply to those who earn a living by selling or advertising products in the marketplace…

    “Sister Oaks called my attention to a similar example in the world of advertising. The magazine Women’s Sports and Fitness does not accept cigarette ads, thus foregoing much-needed revenue. A woman columnist and physician, Dr. Joan Ullyot, praised this policy and contrasted it to the practice of another organization:

    “’I am dismayed that a prominent women’s sport, tennis, continues to take support from a cigarette company. Surely the top women in this sport, none of whom smoke, have the [courage] to say no to this hypocrisy and stop lending their names and prestige to sanction and glamorize a lethal product. Any role model in sport who accepts support or sponsorship from a company whose products destroy health and fitness should take a hard look at what she is, by association, endorsing'(Women’s Sports and Fitness, Sept. 1986, p. 12).

    “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if this same attitude of looking after the interests of others governed Latter-day Saints who are making a profit from the sale or promotion of alcoholic beverages? Consider the terrible effects of alcohol. Alcohol-related accidents are the leading cause of death of those under twenty-five. The physical, social, and financial effects of alcohol ruin marriages and family life. By dulling inhibitions, alcohol leads to untold numbers of crimes and moral transgressions. Alcohol is the number one addictive drug in our day.

    “The consumption of alcohol is increasing among youth. Targeting young audiences, advertisers portray beer and wine as joyful, socially desirable, and harmless. Producers are promoting new types of alcoholic beverages as competitors in the huge soft-drink market. Grocery and convenience stores and gas stations stock alcoholic beverages side by side with soda pop. Can Christians who are involved in this commerce be indifferent to the physical and moral effects of the alcohol from which they are making their profits?”

    “Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should not be involved in employment or other activities upon which they cannot conscientiously ask the blessings of the Lord.”

  12. Connor
    June 13, 2008 at 7:34 am #

    Well, case closed. Elder Oaks’ quote (thanks, Stephen!) perfectly addresses any rhetorical questions posed in my post.

    That puts to rest Kirby’s assertion that the beer commercial is a “blessing from Heavenly Father”.

  13. mark
    June 13, 2008 at 9:21 am #

    Jesus turned water into wine at Cana. Apparently Jesus didnt have a problem with drinking wine.

  14. Mike
    June 14, 2008 at 4:40 am #

    Mark…what?

  15. mark
    June 14, 2008 at 7:09 am #

    Perhaps “the water into wine” story is NOT in your Bible but it is in mine. It took place at a wedding in Cana that Jesus and his Mother attended. As you know the LDS has rewritten many parts of the traditional Bible to fit their own needs. But the fact remains that Jesus did turn water into wine to be enjoyed by those attending the wedding at Cana. I think it is logical to assume the Jesus drank some of the wine. Further more I think we can then assume that Jesus considered wine a gift from the Father in Heaven. The Father in Heaven is not to be confused with the LDS version of “Heavenly Father.” The two are completely different beings one being the “LDS” version and the other being the “Christian” version.

  16. Connor
    June 14, 2008 at 7:33 am #

    Mark,

    Take your misguided anti-mormon garbage elsewhere.

  17. Peter
    June 14, 2008 at 8:58 am #

    Actually, it appears that Elder Oaks statements actually contradict a decision made by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve in 1951. This is when they decided to air beer commercials on church owned KSL-TV.

    Does this mean the church “sold out”? If its okay for the Church to accept money for the advertisement of beer, why is it not okay for Kirby?

    And if Kirby and his wife say that they made a prayerful decision about this, who are we to say that their personal revelation was not really from Heavenly Father?

  18. Daniel
    June 14, 2008 at 8:59 am #

    The post is about the morality of promoting beverages containing alcohol. Mark has raised a point that the Jesus of the Bible is not a teetotaler.

  19. Daniel
    June 15, 2008 at 5:50 am #

    An observation. There are some forms of enjoyment that one could consider more or less innocent, whether dancing, wearing a swimsuit to the beach, laughing loudly, or having a beer at a party or at home.

    But I have noticed that there is no enjoyment so innocent that there won’t be some pious soul standing by, thinking ‘Hrmph.”

  20. Jeff T
    June 15, 2008 at 10:12 am #

    Daniel,

    I, too, believe that we shouldn’t condemn or judge others unrighteously. However, the simple fact of the matter is, despite whatever scripture we may find in the New Testament, God has asked his Saints today to refrain from drinking and advertising alcohol. Who are we to disobey?

    I do see wisdom in not judging or condemning other who do disobey, but that doesn’t mean that we have to believe their actions are right; only that we don’t think ourselves better than them because of it.

  21. Daniel
    June 16, 2008 at 2:00 am #

    God has asked his Saints today to refrain from drinking and advertising alcohol. Who are we to disobey?

    I’m sure you’ve got better reasons than that. Besides, everyone knows God really wants you to stop wearing cloth made from two different kinds of fiber.

    I’d like to echo Peter’s point, as it’s similar to something I’ve said previously. People who are trying to take advice from supernatural beings don’t get the same answers. Which tells me that it’s not a very reliable way to live your life, but that’s up to you. So in the meantime, I guess we can’t do better than take Jeff T’s advice (2nd ¶ only).

  22. kenjebz
    June 18, 2008 at 8:52 pm #

    As a fan, I wrote about that here at Thoughtskoto and when other fans and commenter get mad at me here

    I was only asking: What will happen if you’re famous and you said this and that, and suddenly, you change or shifted to the other direction. In politics they call it flip flops, in us if its for good, they call it a mighty change of heart. But what about shifting to the not-so-good?

  23. Anonthistime
    June 19, 2008 at 11:19 am #

    In the interview, Kirby says: “People think I endorse beer now, which isn’t the case. I don’t advocate anyone drinking,” he said. “I’ve never drank before in my life.”

    Whether would justify him or not is hard for me to say. But I have personal, first-hand knowledge that this is a lie.

  24. TrevorM
    June 19, 2008 at 11:26 am #

    It’s a commercial. Let’s leave character assassination out of this.

  25. AdamF
    June 20, 2008 at 10:11 am #

    #6 “I learned that Joseph Smith said “The ends don’t justify the means”

    Nah, he couldn’t have said that, unless he was contradicting himself. Certainly some ends do justify the means in the LDS faith (re: Nephi killing Laban, denying polygamy, hometeaching on the 31st, lol)

    As for the evil of BEER, “God has asked his Saints today to refrain from drinking and advertising alcohol” – I agree with the above #17 who mentioned KSL advertises beer… So if Kirby were a church owned corporation his action would be okay?

  26. Jeff T
    June 20, 2008 at 10:51 am #

    AdamF,

    II agree with the above #17 who mentioned KSL advertises beer… So if Kirby were a church owned corporation his action would be okay?

    Despite what KSL does, I concur with Elder Oaks, who has a little more sway in my book than KSL.

    Certainly some ends do justify the means in the LDS faith (re: Nephi killing Laban, denying polygamy

    Only when God specifically authorizes it. Wilford Woodruff was ready to be imprisoned and to have the church destroyed before he gave up polygamy; he only asked for it to stop when GOD commanded him to. Nephi was unwilling to kill Laban, despite the ends that he hoped to attain; he only did it because GOD insisted.

    In both these examples, the prophets were willing to sacrifice the hoped for ends to avoiding pursuing immoral means; they only did so when asked to by God, who has all power to authorize any action he sees fit.

  27. AdamF
    June 20, 2008 at 10:56 am #

    Jeff T – I would put Elder Oaks above KSL as well – I would much rather listen to him than watch their beer commercials (who is the authority in charge of KSL, anyway?)

    I really need to stay out of this one. I think we all need to stay out of the business of condemning others. For some reason this stuff just drives me crazy–I don’t know why I care.

  28. mark
    June 20, 2008 at 7:51 pm #

    Connor, please re-read my post. There is not one anti-LDS word to be found. Either Jesus turned water into wine or he did not. I noticed that you didnt have the stones to agree or disagree with the story contained in the Bible. So Connor. Did Jesus turn water into wine? A simple “yes” or “no” would suffice. Im sure you will duck this question or you will delete it. Typical.

  29. Connor
    June 20, 2008 at 8:05 pm #

    Mark,

    There is not one anti-LDS word to be found.

    Not one anti-LDS word to be found? So disparaging an entire belief system (categorically separating it from a general definition of Christianity), or claiming that “The Father in Heaven” is different from the one we Latter-day Saints worship, or claiming that we’ve “rewritten” many parts of the “traditional” Bible is not to be considered “anti”. Right.

    I noticed that you didnt have the stones to agree or disagree with the story contained in the Bible.

    Ah, “stones to agree”. Words of a dignified debater, surely.

    I have no problem with the Biblical story, or Jesus’ consumption of wine. God has never said that drinking alcohol throughout history is sinful, but instead has commanded his Latter-say Saints to abstain, “in consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days”. That’s the idea behind continuing revelation—God’s will changes based on varying circumstances and situations.

    Im sure you will duck this question or you will delete it.

    Strike one for accuracy in your predictive capabilities.

  30. mark
    June 21, 2008 at 7:39 pm #

    Connor, I think it is the LDS who have categorically separated themselves from the rest of mainstream Christians. Perhaps you can tell just where in the Bible did God instruct the LDS followers to abstain from alcohol? I can’t find it in my Bible. Please enlighten me.
    ps I have no problem with you or for that fact anyone abstaining from alcohol.

  31. Connor
    June 21, 2008 at 7:44 pm #

    Perhaps you can tell just where in the Bible did God instruct the LDS followers to abstain from alcohol? I can’t find it in my Bible. Please enlighten me.

    “Mainstream Christianity” is a farce of a term if ever there was one. To refer to a collective group implies a common belief, but with all the flavors of Christianity existing today, you’d be hard-pressed to find two congregations that believe the same thing, even based on the same scriptures.

    I’ve never claimed that God’s revelation to abstain from alcohol is found within the Bible. Just as the Bible was modern revelation to those who lived at the time, so too is current modern revelation given to those who live right now. No doubt you’ll have a fundamental disagreement with the issue of modern revelation, but the argument for the Word of Wisdom is based upon the belief that God speaks to man today.

    The Bible is a history of revelation, and it’s great. But while certain prophecies contained therein apply to our own day, the majority of its writings were specific to those to whom they were addressed. I believe that God speaks, through appointed messengers, to His children whenever they will listen. And so any succeeding prophecy given or scripture created does not—and indeed, must not—rely upon previous revelation to justify its authority.

    God’s authority implies that He can change his will (and commandments) as He sees fit.

  32. mark
    June 22, 2008 at 7:33 pm #

    Connor, your thinking appears to be quite solid on the surface but I dont think it passes the test of time. The rock of your beliefs is based purely and solely on “revelation.” How convenient is that? If the basis of revelation is that strong, what is to stop one of the prophets from saying “God wants the LDS to practice polygamy again? Maybe God wants all Muslims vanquished? Or maybe God will instruct the prophets to say SUV’s should not be driven. I guess my question is, “Who owns the ear of God?” Does God only speak to LDS members? It appears to me that the LDS has elevated themselves to the top of the Christianity ladder and no one else is even being allowed to stand on the bottom step of the ladder.

  33. AdamF
    June 22, 2008 at 8:20 pm #

    Mark – only because I can’t resist because I got a kick out of your questions. :)

    “God wants the LDS to practice polygamy again?”
    If that happened, I would consider leaving.

    “Maybe God wants all Muslims vanquished?”
    If that happened, I would definitely leave.

    “God will instruct the prophets to say SUV’s should not be driven”
    I think that is a good idea, and I would testify of it next month in fast meeting, lol.

  34. Connor
    June 22, 2008 at 8:27 pm #

    Mark,

    The rock of your beliefs is based purely and solely on “revelation.” How convenient is that?

    If you truly believe in the Bible, as you claim, then your rock is founded on the same principle.

    How convenient is that? If the basis of revelation is that strong, what is to stop one of the prophets from saying “God wants the LDS to practice polygamy again?

    What stopped the prophets from doing so in the Bible?

    It appears to me that the LDS has elevated themselves to the top of the Christianity ladder and no one else is even being allowed to stand on the bottom step of the ladder.

    Did the early Christians elevate themselves to the top of the Judaic ladder?

  35. Reach Upward
    June 24, 2008 at 9:37 am #

    I’m a little late to the game on this one. Strictly speaking, Brother Heyborne’s participation in the advertisement would not preclude his being able to get a Temple recommend. However, that does not make it right.

    I appreciate the fact the Brother and Sister Heyborne made their decision about the job a matter of prayer. Unfortunately, his interview makes it sound as if financial need justified the decision to promote the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages — something he says he absolutely does not condone. Actions speak louder than words. What would he think of a soldier that willingly participates in a recruiting video for the enemy forces? The it’s-just-a-job line simply doesn’t cut it.

    I have done things of which I have needed to repent, but which did not technically prevent me from getting a Temple recommend. I have arrogantly tried to justify my actions. Let me just say from personal experience that such a path leads to sorrow rather than to the happiness you hope to find there.

  36. James
    June 26, 2008 at 10:24 am #

    Mark, I hope you some day study the true doctrine of the LDS church, if nothing else so you cease propagating all these misconceptions you take to be truths…

  37. Amore Vero
    June 28, 2008 at 5:50 pm #

    I would think that agreeing to try to influence others to drink alcohol (or do drugs or be immoral, etc. it’s the same thing) so you could make money would be breaking your baptismal covenant to stand as a witness of Christ in all things & in all places, as Christ would. Keeping all our covenants is one of the requirements to enter the temple.

    Leaders don’t tell us we are worthy for the temple, we have to decide that for ourselves & tell them if we are or not, hopefully being honest with ourselves. So I wouldn’t say this incident wouldn’t keep him out of the temple. But he must decide that for himself.

  38. Sunshine
    July 2, 2008 at 7:38 pm #

    To Mark and Everyone,
    I hope that some day more people will come to understand our faith better. We don’t condemn others and their religions, and we believe in loving all people. Each person in the LDS faith is encouraged to gain a testimony from God through prayer, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the Lord’s church restored to the earth from ancient times when Christ was on the earth. We aren’t supposed to just take someone’s word for it that this is true, but we are encouraged to seek a witness from the Holy Spirit that this is true. We believe that there is a living prophet on the earth today who is God’s mouth piece on this earth to speak his will. The men who wrote the Bible were ancient prophets and apostles. The reason we have the bible is because of revelation from God recieved by these prophets. I have felt the Holy Spirit tell me many times through a feeling of Christ’s love that this is the Lord’s church. This is what I have felt, though it may seem foolish to some, I believe that we can come to know what comes from God by the power of the Holy spirit, just as a blind man can know the sun exists because he can feel the heat of its rays.
    As far as Jesus turning water to wine, this story is in the King James version of the Bible which we use, but some members of the LDS faith, and members not of our faith as well, feel that the word “wine” used in the bible does not necessarily mean it was fermented or alchoholic. Wine is used in terms of refering to pure grape juice as well as fermented juice. Here is a link to an article done by a man not of our faith who has similar views. Observe the section in the article titled “What Saith the Scriptures?” http://www.tbaptist.com/aab/wineorgrapejuice.htm

    I’m not sure about everything that goes on with KSL, but I do know that KSL is owned by Bonneville International, which in turn is owned by the LDS faith. Bonneville owns about 30 different media stations, and I’m sure the First Presidency doesn’t force those in charge of the stations to air what they want. For all we know the First Presidency might have a very limited say in what KSL airs on TV. All I know is this, the First Presidency is made up of men who are righteous men who recieve revelation from God, and would never do anything to lead the church astray. I end with a quote from the late Gordon B. Hinkley, former prophet of the church: “The priesthood is among us. It is real. It is powerful. It is true. The spirit of revelation is among us. I want to give you my testimony that the Lord will not permit any man to lead His church astray. His are the powers of life and death. It is His church, not the church of any man.”

    This I firmly know to be true through the power of the Lord’s love and spirit. Not because I took a man’s word for it.

  39. Connor
    July 3, 2008 at 4:03 pm #

    I just returned from running some errands, and while driving on I-15 passed the billboard for the company “Dear Elder”. Kirby has been their poster boy for years, smiling down with glee at all the passersby.

    Not anymore.

    The billboard now has a silhouette of a person with a question mark in the middle, and the text on the billboard says something to the effect of “We need a new face! Nominate somebody today!”.

    Should you care, you can nominate Kirby’s successor on their website.

    Guess they didn’t want to have to photoshop Kirby with a Miller Lite bottle…

  40. adamf
    July 5, 2008 at 9:29 am #

    For those who think we should all refrain from judging Heyborne’s promotion of beer, there is some nice satirical catharsis found in Robert Kirby’s column today at the trib.

  41. Connor
    July 11, 2008 at 3:44 pm #

    I found this article interesting, in light of Bryson’s comment:

    A Las Vegas man who was the creative brains behind a calendar that features shirtless Mormon missionaries is facing a disciplinary hearing and possible excommunication for the project.

  42. donny
    July 18, 2008 at 12:51 pm #

    Here’s an article for your reading pleasure:

    http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/273505/149/

  43. MAB
    July 29, 2008 at 3:35 pm #

    Take it easy on him, guys. It’s tough for a guy like him to make a living by acting. Do you attack the LDS mechanic who fixes the Budweiser truck, thereby directly aiding the distribution of alcohol? What about the LDS waiter at Olive Garden who actually serves the wine to guests? Kirby gets a rough time of it because he is so visible. If anything having to do with beer is so horrible, then why are you even watching the commercials? I’m sure if he had more options on the table, he wouldn’t have chosen that one. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Let the guy live his life and support his family.

  44. brandon
    July 29, 2008 at 11:40 pm #

    If offending the sensibilities of idealistic mormons wasn’t enough, Kirby’s latest commercial for snickers candy bars was yanked off the tube because gay rights groups have claimed it is homophobic. Poor guy, now the gays and the mormons hate him.

  45. pat
    August 3, 2008 at 7:14 am #

    Babylon is a good name for current social promotion in America, as around the world.

    Knowing the Bible doesn’t seem to help much.

  46. bryce
    September 12, 2010 at 5:12 am #

    It really shows the character of the members of the mormon church who, time and time again, throw their own “under the bus”.

  47. Randy
    May 20, 2013 at 7:58 am #

    No where in the scriptures does it say Jesus drank alcoholic wine. The Hebrew word for wine means grape juice, wine, vinegar. Grape juice which is referred to as new wine was always drank first at social functions, then the mildly fermented wine(remember they didn’t have refined sugar or yeast to amplify the alcohol content thatwe do today)….At the last supper it says they drank the fruit oof the vine, which was grape juice. Jesus said that he wouldn’t drink it again until he drank it new with his Father. Again drinking it new means grape juice.
    Oh yes the Bible does say not to drink…..

    Gal 5:21   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

  48. Randy
    May 20, 2013 at 7:59 am #

    No where in the scriptures does it say Jesus drank alcoholic wine. The Hebrew word for wine means grape juice, wine, vinegar. Grape juice which is referred to as new wine was always drank first at social functions, then the mildly fermented wine(remember they didn’t have refined sugar or yeast to amplify the alcohol content thatwe do today)….At the last supper it says they drank the fruit oof the vine, which was grape juice. Jesus said that he wouldn’t drink it again until he drank it new with his Father. Again drinking it new means grape juice.
    Oh yes the Bible does say not to drink…..

    Gal 5:21   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Gal 5:21   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. By Common Consent » Zeitcast #18 - June 18, 2008

    […] Elder Heyborne commits the unpardonable sin. […]

  2. Kirby Heyborne Part Deux... Hops? - Page 4 - LDS Mormon Forums - June 18, 2008

    […] A detailed blogs and comments about this KIRBY THING, perhaps Brother Snow must read it. Oh, by the way, my wife is asking, are you the Snow that was kick out in "Do you think you can dance?" Connor’s Conundrums Kirby Heyborne’s Promotion of Babylon […]

  3. average life » Blog Archive » leave kirby alone! - July 21, 2008

    […] against him for recently appearing in a Miller Lite commercial.  Comments on the Youtube page and around the bloggernacle express disappointment, outrage, and even throw around doubts to Mr. Heyborne’s […]

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