1) The philosophies of men mingled with scripture. You see how they mix in liberal women’s agenda into gospel principles.
2) The American culture is part of who we are no matter what other background we may have including religious background. Many people here on this blog have shown how much they listen to pop culture before they listen to the church leaders.

See the following talk:

Ezra Taft Benson, “The Honored Place of Woman,” Ensign, Nov 1981, 104

After this address where Pres. Benson advises mothers to remember that no greater work can be done than within the walls of your own home, there was an equal uprising in murmurings. Women saying, “Who does he think he is? He doesn’t know me and my situation.” Forgive me, but I thought he was the prophet. If you don’t believe he is the prophet, why are you a member of this church? And if you’re not, why do you care what he says? Rick, I’d ask you a similar question. If you’re not a Mormon, why do you care what we say or do or believe?

I moved from an area in California recently where many of the mothers were so grateful when the school year started. They just wanted to be rid of their kids. Many others chose a possibly wiser, possibly more foolish route and didn’t have any children.

When people learned that my wife not only enjoyed rearing her children, but planned on homeschooling, they were aghast that she would take that on herself. The women were futher blanched as she told them that I worked from home. They said they couldn’t believe she could stand to be around her husband all day. They would be happy if they only got to see their husbands a few hours a week.

I often wondered why they had kids in the first place. I wondered why these women married men they didn’t want to be around. My wife commented that she was from that old throw-back of Mormons that marry men they actually LOVE.

Rick, Nowhere in the Bill of Rights does it say “All men are created equal”. It says it in the Declaration of Independence. This shows your common method of (il)logic. You bring up ideas you’ve heard because it sounds cool to say. But you never really studied or gave tremendous thought to them. You may be close, but keep missing the mark. Your entire series of comments is merely a repetition of hearsay and rumor that you’ve obviously gotten from people who have never known of the FLAVOR of being a Latter-Day Saint. And here you have an entire cadre of individuals who live it and know. Yet we are all just “misguided”. Gee, you sound like you’re really open minded.

The main thing to understand is that the family is really the only place of importance. Other places like church and work and societies may enrich, enlighten, and edify. But the primary place where life happens is in the family. It is in the family that Fathers and Mothers have equal authority. It is in a marriage that a husband and wife share authority, responsibility, joy, and heartache. It is in the family that the greatest joys are realized. It is the family that is eternal.

All other places including church might be more showy. But they are not eternal. Even the Church as an organization will cease to exist after the cycle of the earth is done.

The glory of men and public recognition are the things that the world seeks to attain. But they’re just dust in the wind.

It is no wonder that the world cringes at the thought of traditional marriage and the private joys it offers. It is no wonder the world shuns us as a hyper-patriarchal cult who dares to say that women who want to rear children are blessed daughters of God.

I’ve often thought that the “women’s movement” was really just the greatest Tom Sawyer joke of all time. Go, leave your homes and get into the rat race. YES!

Don’t get me wrong. I DO believe that both men and women should have the necessary skills to do both roles. But if you read Napoleon Hill, Tony Robbins, Steven Covey, and many others, you will find that no one possesses the ability to be all things. It is ideal to have a team with divided specialties and responsibilities. When there is abandonment, death etc. The ward family is there to help pick up the slack. But it can never replace the missing parts of a team that was as close as a family.

My LDS boss called me into his office one day and said, “Hey, Bill. Guess what.”.

Being the contrarian I am, instead of saying, “What”, I guessed.

You got a day off work? No, better than that.
You got your tax refund early? No. BETTER.
You got an all expense paid trip around the world? No BETTER.
You won the lottery? No, BETTER.
You got released from the bishipric? no . . .

In case you missed it, he recognized that a “high position” in the church is not a position of leisure, power, or any reason to celebrate.

But then maybe you’re right. Maybe the rat race is where it’s at. Maybe we should listen to men instead of to God. Maybe being recognized by men is more important than being recognized by God. Maybe we should recognize that government is more important that family or religion. Maybe we should see that Hollywood has more to offer in the way of lasting happiness than good old fashioned family and religious values. Maybe we’ll all be better off if we make God in our image instead of trying to emulate the God that created us.

Then again, maybe not.

Ey mate, it’s not about “attaining position” and it’s not an “LDS structure.” Actually it’s about getting back to Heavenly Father’s presence in the Celestial kingdom. Stop making something so easy so complicated. Actually, maybe you should repent and not paint your own picture, look at the one that God already made.

Minor quibbles, but pretty important if you’re the sort that claims that Priesthood is what we’re respecting, at least in part, in the offices of our leaders.

Being born equal, means equal rights. The right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. It does not promise that each person will have equal outcomes. Nor does it mean everyone would be treated equally.

In the gospel, women have equal standing before the Lord in receiving the ordinances of salvation, having prayers heard & answered, receiving personal revelation, the gifts of the spirit, and more. In the temple women officiate.

Men may get the priesthood, but women get other blessings, greater ones, greater promises, I dare say. Some of those blessings can not be remedied by a proclamation and are eternal in nature.

In the eternities, man is not without woman and woman is not without man. You can not reach the highest status as a single person of either gender. Even if you were Abraham of some other righteous priesthood holder. No matter what sacrifice you made.

Most of the negative was attacking things Beck did not say. I feel a person needs to go to lds.org and watch her talk, along with the video clips. Most, totally were off base on what she was teaching.

If I find one more specific I’ll let you know. This one just says that none of the speakers are assigned topics, “And yet all of the talks seem to harmonize, one with another, each a thread in the tapestry of a grand and beautiful pattern”. That makes me think they are not previewed, but again, it seemed like there was a talk that said directly.

In my search I found a great talk from October of 96 that Women should re-read. If Sister Beck had quoted even just a tiny bit of this in her talk, no one would have been upset. It’s just to acknowledge that people have differing circumstances and that we are doing the best we can, and that is all that is asked of us.

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1996.htm/ensign%20november%201996.htm/women%20of%20the%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm$f=templates$3.0

For the record, I USED to BE Catholic, and I can tell you that female priests-ain’t happening in 10 years! (at least not recognized by the official Catholic church under the Pope)

Furthermore, I changed my last name because I LIKED my new one better (it fits my first name better). I’ve actually had this conversation with my husband. While he prefers that we have the same last name (for convenience sake) if it made me happier to change back to my old last name (or to have skipped changing my last name in the first place), I KNOW that he would support me in that :) Please don’t judge-you’ve never met me, OR my husband.

Let me get this straight. If one partner doesn’t allow any request from the other, they aren’t equal?

That’s an interesting premise.

If your wife asked you to wear a tutu to work everyday, how could you possibly deny her and say that you are indeed equal partners?!

;)

Allie, I’d love to see a source for that.

In late editions of Mormon Doctrine, published by Deseret Book, there is a disclaimer saying that it is a product of the culture and time in which it was written. In the Kirtland and Nauvoo Temples, black people were allowed to receive endowments and men could hold the priesthood and serve missions. It wasn’t until Brigham Young that it changed. I’m not saying that Brigham Young was a false prophet by any means, but I think the Lord gives us much latitude for making our own mistakes, and I do feel like it was a mistake for Sister Beck to let such an important message be overshadowed by this feeling of inadequacy for those who don’t fit the mold (which I agree does not come from the church).

While I feel sorry for anyone who felt discouraged (and some people really are just too hard on themselves) I think we need to own our feelings and take talks like these in context of the entire gospel. I am uncomfortable with putting so much blame on the speaker. I hope I don’t come across as insensitive. I’ve learned to recognize where that discouraging and hopeless feeling of “you’re not good enough” comes from. It is not from our leaders or from God, but it sneaks through the back door whenever possible. We need to be aware of it’s true source with open eyes and get rid of it.

You say that you don’t think Sister Beck meant to set an unachievable high standard, (and I agree) but that’s our interpretation of her words, obviously there were many women who interpreted the same words very differently. How much would have been different if Sister Beck had said, “We don’t need to try to meet an unachievable standard, but we do need to do the best we can”.

Then there wouldn’t have been a question over what she really meant.

I think Sister Beck had a wonderful message, but should have adjusted her delivery to allow women in all situations to at least take bits of it into their lives instead of making those who feel like they don’t fit the mold feel like failures.

Yet… should they stop preaching about tithing so those who don’t fit into the mold of “perfect tithe-payer” won’t feel like failures? Should they stop preaching about chastity because, let’s face it, there are so many who fall short of perfection in that category? What about the word of wisdom? The attributes we develop and the value we place on motherhood (and, for those who can’t have children, you don’t necessarily have to be a mother to value motherhood or develop nurturing attributes) is just as much a choice as being a full tithe payer or anything else. For some it comes easy, for others it is harder.

Also, there was more to her talk than encouraging us to be better at housework. There was the part about honoring covenants, standing strong and immovable, being teachers, being leaders, and my favorite part: choosing carefully and not choosing it all (in other words, don’t feel pressured to be perfect and do everything all at once!) I loved how she talked about being selective in our activities so we can maximize our influence where it matters most. I think that is worthwhile advice for anyone, in any situation, to hear.

If we feel like failures, it isn’t because she “made” us feel that way. She even ends her talk by saying she has confidence in the women of the church. We can feel inadequate, (God’s standards are not low in any area) but that often just helps us resolve to do better. When she says Latter Day Saint women “should be the best homemakers in the world” I think what she is trying to get across is we should put our best efforts into strengthening our homes and families. I don’t think she is trying to set an unachievable high standard of perfect cleanliness and organization.

Rick-again, those levels of ‘status’ are self inflicted. There is only status if you care about status. In ANY culture there are going to be people of different socio-economic backgrounds, if that’s what you’re referring to. Anyone who looks at ‘status’ in the LDS church as positions of power is totally missing the point. It’s not about power, it’s about service. Going back to ‘the church/gospel is perfect, but the people are not’ and the ludicrous LDS subculture that is prevalent in highly concentrated areas.

When I was joining the church (almost a year ago) that was one of my first questions-why can’t women hold the priesthood or serve in major positions of authority within the church. The answer I was given (BY A WOMAN) was so great that I never asked again!

She told me, simply :) that men hold the priesthood to mold them into better men, men that lead, men that serve, men that care about others. If you think about it, women are ‘generally’ more nurturing, serving, and caring-it’s our ‘natural’ instinct, so the priesthood was given to men in order to shape these characteristics more fully in them. I thought it made sense, and from what I’ve seen, holding the priesthood worthily makes for a ‘higher caliber’ of man. It’s not about power, it’s about service (to echo the words of other posts).

In no way, have I ever felt inferior because I do not hold the priesthood. In fact, the more I think about it, there is no way I’d want the responsibility of the priesthood! But I am grateful for the priesthood holders in my life.

PS-you want to start ripping on the Catholic church? You don’t see too many female ‘priests’ there either…