Connor’s Conundrums » Stacking the Deck

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Stacking the Deck

Posted by Connor on February 26th, 2007

photo credit: FrogMiller

I present to the reader another Book of Mormon prophecy being fulfilled in our day.

Now it came to pass that those judges had many friends and kindreds; and the remainder, yea, even almost all the lawyers and the high priests, did gather themselves together, and unite with the kindreds of those judges who were to be tried according to the law.

And they did enter into a covenant one with another, yea, even into that covenant which was given by them of old, which covenant was given and administered by the devil, to combine against all righteousness.

Therefore they did combine against the people of the Lord, and enter into a covenant to destroy them, and to deliver those who were guilty of murder from the grasp of justice, which was about to be administered according to the law.

And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings. (3 Nephi 6:27-30)

Fulfillment:

From the World Affairs Brief – Feb. 16th, 2007 – from Joel Skousen

BUSH JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REPLACING ALL US ATTORNEY’S WITH BUSH LOYALISTS

This is, in my opinion, a harbinger of more evil to come in the US justice system. The nation will begin to experience the rule of unprincipled prosecutions of dissidents as we have witnessed in the prosecution of the two good Border Patrol agents recently. Last year’s USA Patriot Act re-authorization law gave Attorney Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales the authority to appoint interim prosecutors for indefinite terms. Almost immediately the Bush administration fired seven top US attorneys without comment or reason. Five of the seven had received outstanding ratings prior to their abrupt dismissal. The Bush Justice Department was forced to start falsifying information justifying the firings as the Senate demanded to know the reasons for eliminating approved appointees. The Washington Post explains:

“A recently fired U.S. attorney based in Seattle said yesterday that he was told of no performance problems when he was asked to resign, and he called critical remarks by a top Justice Department official ‘unfair’ and inaccurate. The comments by former U.S. attorney John McKay add to a growing tide of criticism of the Justice Department’s decision to fire seven top prosecutors without explanation, and came on the same day the Senate Judiciary Committee voted 13 to 6 to limit the attorney general’s power to appoint replacements. …

“McKay said in an interview that his Seattle office received glowing reviews as recently as last fall, when an intensive Justice Department audit heaped praise on McKay and his staff. McKay challenged testimony this week by Deputy Attorney General Paul J. McNulty, who told the Senate panel that McKay and five other Republican-appointed U.S. attorneys were forced to resign for ‘performance-related’ reasons.

“McKay is the third U.S. attorney to speak publicly about his dismissal. Daniel G. Bogden of Nevada told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that he was given no explanation for being forced out and that he had not been told of any problems with his performance.

“McNulty’s testimony Tuesday also included an admission that the chief prosecutor in Little Rock, Ark., was fired to make way for GOP stalwart J. Timothy Griffin, a protege of presidential adviser Karl Rove and former researcher for the Republican National Committee.” [end of excerpt]

Our President (more like dictator) has repeatedly abused his authority and ignored the Constitutional protections set in place by men far wiser than he. It is saddening to see the direction our country is heading with an executive branch continually lusting after power and seeking to protect and promote its own ulterior motives.

Read quotes about “government” on

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16 comments so far. Care to chime in?

In what sense is the scripture quoted a prophecy? In what sense is the article linked a fulfillment? It seems that the quoted verses are an observation and condemnation of the actions of those particular people at that particular time.

I see what you are getting at, but I view it as more of an analogy. I don’t think it is wise to loosely throw the terms prophecy and fulfillment of prophecy around, lest one become a false prophet (or identifier of prophecies, if you will). But kudos for ‘likening the scriptures’!

As to the substance of the post, I agree that this is not welcome news. From what I know, I disagree with a lot of what Bush has done along these lines.

#1 APJ on February 26th, 2007

In what sense is the scripture quoted a prophecy? In what sense is the article linked a fulfillment?

Do we not believe that the Book of Mormon was written for our day? Do we not look to it as a guide and pattern for modern day events? In support of this I offer two quotes:

I have been deeply impressed with the beauty and power of this scriptural account in 3 Nephi, and with its great value for our time and our generation.

The record of the Nephite history just prior to the Savior’s visit reveals many parallels to our own day as we anticipate the Savior’s second coming. The Nephite civilization had reached great heights. They were prosperous and industrious….

But, as so often happens, the people rejected the Lord. Pride became commonplace. Dishonesty and immorality were widespread. Secret combinations flourished because, as Helaman tells us, the Gadianton robbers “had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils” (Hel. 6:38). …. And “Satan had great power, unto the stirring up of the people to do all manner of iniquity, and to the puffing them up with pride, tempting them to seek for power, and authority, and riches, and the vain things of the world,” even as today (3 Ne. 6:15). (via Quoty)

Our current Prophet has said:

The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems. (via Quoty)

#2 Connor on February 26th, 2007

Again, I agree with the overall point you are making here, but having said that…

I really don’t think those verses were a prophecy, at least to me. They don’t sound like they are, to me. They are more descriptive. Of course the Book of Mormon was written for our day, and we can learn much from it, and it is inspired. I agree with the quotes you provide. I think perhaps I am just thinking of ‘prophecy’ in a different sense than you are. I would ask, how do you know that those verses were referring to Bush’s actions. I think you can learn a lesson by analogy from those verses; I guess I’m just saying that I am not convinced that they were specifically inserted into the Book of Mormon so that we could make a comparison to President Bush.

Like I said, though, we’re probably just thinking of the term prophecy in different senses. The way that you are viewing prophecy, for me, seems too likely to lead to hysteria and exaggeration, in my experience, and can be dangerous. ‘Lo here’ and ‘lo there’ can mislead people. So, I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that I am not convinced that those verses were a prophecy warning against our current president.

I guess I’m more of a ‘wise as serpents; harmless as doves’ kinda guy (with an emphasis on staying even-keeled), and you are a ’shout it from the rooftops’ kinda guy. It takes all kinds.

#3 APJ on February 26th, 2007

To be more succinct, the fact that the Book of Mormon begins with “I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents…” and the fact that I was born of goodly parents, when coupled together, does not make my birth the fulfillment of Book of Mormon prophecy.

#4 APJ on February 26th, 2007

I really don’t think those verses were a prophecy, at least to me. They don’t sound like they are, to me.

I understand your point of view. The definition depends entirely upon your usage of the word. In this case I’m assuming prophecy to mean any prophetic foresight for future events, whether it be intentional or not. So “Thus saith the Lord: such and such an event will happen” would be on equal playing ground with an event taking place in the Book of Mormon chronology that mirrors a similar event taking place in our day. Both exist to warn the reader of future events, and as such, are prophecy. You say tom-ay-to, I say tom-ah-to.

I would ask, how do you know that those verses were referring to Bush’s actions.

I’m not narrowing them to strictly Bush’s actions. We see many times in the scriptures that one verse or prophecy can have several fulfillments (usually it’s a dual fulfillment). I’m simply suggesting that this is one of perhaps many.

#5 Connor on February 26th, 2007

Here in Central Ohio we had a Stake Priesthood meeting last night, and, as usual, I felt so uplifted, and spiritually strengthened that I really did not want to go out into the corrupt, demoralized world again. I really wanted to just have all of those wonderful Priesthood holders remain a while longer so we could sing #19 once again, or have another testimony born by a worthy RM. Unfortunately, it was not meant to be, and I got into my car to start the 30 mile return trip to my home.

I thought as I drove, that I should write to the General Presidency to request we have these meetings at least once a month so we can partake of the strength which is so prevalent, and receive the blessings attendant with a gathering of the Lord’s valiant representatives. Perhaps I’ll do just that. It won’t hurt to try.

Anyway, I wanted to start with something positive, and uplifting before I consider this post, and what it means to me.

Once again Connor has left us with less than pleasant things to occupy our thoughts. I can only say that I know that what he has laid before us is unfortunately true, and yet I want to disbelieve it is happening right under our noses, as it were. This President has been permitted to abrogate so many of our constitutional powers that it seems there is not much hope left for us to do anything substantive about it as we have lost our voice in the Congress. We are truly without adequate representation, and it does not bode well for the immediate, or long term future as far as I am concerned.

There is but one hope for us, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. Through His Prophet we are being led out of the depths of Babylon, and we must continue to hone our battle skills by immersing ourselves in the Holy Scriptures, and especially The Book of Mormon. We must take positive, and substantial steps toward emergency preparedness, and removing ourselves from the grip of indebtedness. We must re-energize ourselves prayerfully, and commit to substantially increasing our temple attendance. We must not lose sight of the promises the Lord has made to us if we will be vigilant in our stewardship of the most blessed, and wonderful land upon the earth. We must also do all that can to reverse the trends of immorality, and stand up for the truth, and Christian principles.

The Prophet Joseph Smith once said. “You cannot be too good. Patience is heavenly, obedience is noble, forgiveness is merciful, and exaltation is godly; and he that holds out faithful to the end shall in no wise lose his reward. A good man will endure all things to honor Christ, and even dispose of the whole world, and all in it, to save his soul.” (History of the Church, 6:427).

As I was finishing this post I decided to read the words of Hymn #19, We Thank Thee, Oh God, for a Prophet, aloud and poetically. As I read, I was immediately filled with the Spirit, and tears came to my eyes, and now I am once again prepared to continue to engage my enemies for the soul of this land, and leave them with a warning: This land belongs to the Redeemer of the world, and the Lord of this land is Jesus Christ. While you may conspire to remove the freedoms He has allotted to His Father’s children, you may ultimately pay an eternal price which, once realized, you will regret having ever been a part of this evil plot.

“Unless God has raised you up for this very thing, you will be worn out by the opposition of men and devils. But if God be for you, who can be against you? Are all of them together stronger than God? Oh, be not weary of well-doing. Go on in the name of God and in the power of His might.” - John Wesley to William Wilberforce

#6 Michael L. Mc Kee on February 26th, 2007

Fair enough…in that case, I am in full agreement.

#7 APJ on February 26th, 2007

Al Gore’s Oscar win should count as fulfillment of prophecy because the Book of Mormon mentions ‘pollutions’. Which Mr Gore’s film is about.

In fact, if you’re willing to allow multiple fulfillments and fulfillment on temporal and spiritual levels simultaneously, then just about anything can be a hit. Particularly if you’re not fussy about exact matches.

You may call it ‘looking with the eye of faith’, but I call it ‘playing fast and loose’. Psychics pull that stuff all the time.

- - - - - - -

Hold the phone — do you know Stirling Allen? He was really active in the Mormon/patriot scene in the 90’s. I remembe hearing about him. But have you checked his page out lately?

http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/People/GeorgeWBush.htm

Here’s someone who’s really not fussy about exact matches. Absolutely everything is significant in his mind. Number codes, adjacent words, page numbers, everything. I actually think he might be mentally ill and need help.

Read his website and behold your future. There is a way out though, and it is Critical Thinking.

#8 fontor on February 27th, 2007

Not that I disagree about Bush. Your last paragraph was particularly well-written.

#9 fontor on February 27th, 2007

Hold the phone — do you know Stirling Allen? He was really active in the Mormon/patriot scene in the 90’s.

Yeah, until he got excommunicated… Not exactly the best source for orthodox LDS interpretation of scriptures.

#10 Connor on February 27th, 2007

Connor,

not that it necessarily means anything, but to semi-bolster fontor’s observation, it seems that both you and Stirling Allen plan on supporting the same obscure candidate for president in 2008: Ron Paul.

#11 APJ on February 27th, 2007

APJ,

Ron Paul is hands down the best man for the job, regardless of whether he is supported by an apostate person or faithful LDS.

And you’re right.. it doesn’t mean anything.

#12 Connor on February 27th, 2007

haha, I actually typically vote Libertarian myself, and wouldn’t be opposed to Ron Paul (although I understand he is no longer as strongly affiliated with the party). I was just making a smart-alecky, tongue-in-cheek remark.

#13 APJ on February 27th, 2007

No, no, here’s a smart-alecky remark:

Here I was getting all excited because I thought you were going to vote for Ru-Paul.

Ru-Paul, Ron Paul, tomayto, tomahto.

And I think Stirling Allen would vote for himself. I don’t know why I feel bad for him. I didn’t know him or anything. It’s just sad. I bet his Strong’s Concordance is black with obsessive marginal scribblings.

#14 fontor on February 27th, 2007