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	<title>Comments on: The Misplaced Ire of Citizens United</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united</link>
	<description>Rants and musings about things political, philosophical, and religious.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:34:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: David Caddock</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-65135</link>
		<dc:creator>David Caddock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-65135</guid>
		<description>As long as government wields immense power, those with money will try to buy it.  The only way to prevent corporations from buying government influence is to give the government less influence over our lives.  Giving the government more power to prevent coercion from special interests is an oxymoron.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as government wields immense power, those with money will try to buy it.  The only way to prevent corporations from buying government influence is to give the government less influence over our lives.  Giving the government more power to prevent coercion from special interests is an oxymoron.</p>
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		<title>By: Quincy</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63952</link>
		<dc:creator>Quincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 23:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63952</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.inforipple.com/2010/04/citizens-united-v-fec-4/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here is a video&lt;/a&gt; explaining why the Supreme Court was right and Obama is wrong about the Citizens United case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.inforipple.com/2010/04/citizens-united-v-fec-4/" rel="nofollow">Here is a video</a> explaining why the Supreme Court was right and Obama is wrong about the Citizens United case.</p>
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		<title>By: SpecKK</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63531</link>
		<dc:creator>SpecKK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63531</guid>
		<description>While I strongly agree with the free speech arguments, I don&#039;t believe that the majority of corporations work in the best interests of their owners (shareholders), employees, or our nation.

While this guy is over the top: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/01/28/pm-fox-commentary/  
I like his conclusion that if corporations are people with 1st amendment rights, they should be committed to an asylum for being crazy.

Corporations are run by old boys clubs and the people who run them have too many exemptions from liability. Shareholders are given a sanitized slate of board members with different specialties (who don&#039;t identify with employees at all because only a couple can actually be company employees) by the existing board and management. Executive management is chosen by the boards. Management hires their friends and dilute shareholder value by loading them up with giant pay packages of cash, stock, and options, which come regardless of performance.

This is exemplified by derelict banks like Citi paying out more in bonuses than they brought in as revenues. Vanguard fund managers, who own (by proxy) as many shares as anyone (aside from the federal government) complained about having no power to stop management from stealing the assets of the company they own. &quot;Incentive&quot; Payment beyond a certain level passes up the law of diminishing returns, and there has to be plenty of competent, out-of-work bankers in this economy to take the jobs if they want to.

There has to be a corporate governance way to handle the varied political interests of corporate stakeholders (Share and debt owners, management, employees and customers). Allowing a few people in management to blow other peoples assets to buy air time or lobby congress for their whims and short term gain at the expense of society at large is anything but FREE speech. Like every other large organization, a little bit of sunlight and full transparency works wonders. Public companies should file a lobbying plan, objectives and outlays with the SEC (and broadcasters can file the political income side with the FCC as well). 

The other side of this equation is making management responsive to owners. Large national corporations are pursuing congress for special treatment, so the interstate commerce clause needs to be brought to bear to protect owner rights over the use of their assets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I strongly agree with the free speech arguments, I don&#8217;t believe that the majority of corporations work in the best interests of their owners (shareholders), employees, or our nation.</p>
<p>While this guy is over the top: <a href="http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/01/28/pm-fox-commentary/" rel="nofollow">http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/01/28/pm-fox-commentary/</a><br />
I like his conclusion that if corporations are people with 1st amendment rights, they should be committed to an asylum for being crazy.</p>
<p>Corporations are run by old boys clubs and the people who run them have too many exemptions from liability. Shareholders are given a sanitized slate of board members with different specialties (who don&#8217;t identify with employees at all because only a couple can actually be company employees) by the existing board and management. Executive management is chosen by the boards. Management hires their friends and dilute shareholder value by loading them up with giant pay packages of cash, stock, and options, which come regardless of performance.</p>
<p>This is exemplified by derelict banks like Citi paying out more in bonuses than they brought in as revenues. Vanguard fund managers, who own (by proxy) as many shares as anyone (aside from the federal government) complained about having no power to stop management from stealing the assets of the company they own. &#8220;Incentive&#8221; Payment beyond a certain level passes up the law of diminishing returns, and there has to be plenty of competent, out-of-work bankers in this economy to take the jobs if they want to.</p>
<p>There has to be a corporate governance way to handle the varied political interests of corporate stakeholders (Share and debt owners, management, employees and customers). Allowing a few people in management to blow other peoples assets to buy air time or lobby congress for their whims and short term gain at the expense of society at large is anything but FREE speech. Like every other large organization, a little bit of sunlight and full transparency works wonders. Public companies should file a lobbying plan, objectives and outlays with the SEC (and broadcasters can file the political income side with the FCC as well). </p>
<p>The other side of this equation is making management responsive to owners. Large national corporations are pursuing congress for special treatment, so the interstate commerce clause needs to be brought to bear to protect owner rights over the use of their assets.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63476</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63476</guid>
		<description>While I agree with your sentiments Connor, I don&#039;t think the only solution to this is to elect persons with integrity.  That&#039;s making the assumption that unintentional personal bias will not enter into the process.  It will and would be taken advantage of even for the most principled elected official.  Even assuming that this were true and we could elect leaders who ignore this, because we live in an imperfect society, choices between two different groups of people will always have to be made.   You come dangerously close to the &quot;let&#039;s make it fair for everyone&quot; fallacy when you say &quot;...clean house and elect only those individuals who will refrain from approving legislation that favors one group of people over another.&quot;  That&#039;s an impossible (or maybe overstated) position to take, decisions of any signifigance will always have consequences on both sides.

We&#039;re not perfect, that&#039;s the problem in the first place, and why we&#039;re in this situation.  The point of laws to limit this kind of abuse is so that we (collectively) don&#039;t have to worry about this on a continuous basis.  It&#039;s not practical and arguably not sustainable.  I agree that we do need to be engaged and involved, but this is a side-effect, as you point out, of an even greater problem.  That problem needs to be fixed and this issue will more or less go away.

That said...  Unfortunately I don&#039;t have any better solution to propose here either.  =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with your sentiments Connor, I don&#8217;t think the only solution to this is to elect persons with integrity.  That&#8217;s making the assumption that unintentional personal bias will not enter into the process.  It will and would be taken advantage of even for the most principled elected official.  Even assuming that this were true and we could elect leaders who ignore this, because we live in an imperfect society, choices between two different groups of people will always have to be made.   You come dangerously close to the &#8220;let&#8217;s make it fair for everyone&#8221; fallacy when you say &#8220;&#8230;clean house and elect only those individuals who will refrain from approving legislation that favors one group of people over another.&#8221;  That&#8217;s an impossible (or maybe overstated) position to take, decisions of any signifigance will always have consequences on both sides.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not perfect, that&#8217;s the problem in the first place, and why we&#8217;re in this situation.  The point of laws to limit this kind of abuse is so that we (collectively) don&#8217;t have to worry about this on a continuous basis.  It&#8217;s not practical and arguably not sustainable.  I agree that we do need to be engaged and involved, but this is a side-effect, as you point out, of an even greater problem.  That problem needs to be fixed and this issue will more or less go away.</p>
<p>That said&#8230;  Unfortunately I don&#8217;t have any better solution to propose here either.  =)</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63467</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63467</guid>
		<description>Josh, what exactly do you mean by &quot;corporatism&quot; that forces corporations to capitalize on a highly inflexible business strategy.  There are some industries that require a very large capital investment to be made before any revenue can be generated, and significant time and capital outlays to change course - the auto industry for example.  That&#039;s why US corporations tend to simply buy up businesses in what they think are emerging markets and sell off divisions that are lagging and are costly to re-tool.  That strategy costs the economy jobs every time.

In the for-profit health insurance industry, the customer is the entity that is making the decisions about purchasing insurance - in general the corporation, not the individual.  While more government anti-trust control might be helpful, it would not solve the key problems of the health insurance market: inability to provide universal coverage, and rapidly escalating costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, what exactly do you mean by &#8220;corporatism&#8221; that forces corporations to capitalize on a highly inflexible business strategy.  There are some industries that require a very large capital investment to be made before any revenue can be generated, and significant time and capital outlays to change course &#8211; the auto industry for example.  That&#8217;s why US corporations tend to simply buy up businesses in what they think are emerging markets and sell off divisions that are lagging and are costly to re-tool.  That strategy costs the economy jobs every time.</p>
<p>In the for-profit health insurance industry, the customer is the entity that is making the decisions about purchasing insurance &#8211; in general the corporation, not the individual.  While more government anti-trust control might be helpful, it would not solve the key problems of the health insurance market: inability to provide universal coverage, and rapidly escalating costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63466</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63466</guid>
		<description>One thing that&#039;s ironic about &quot;corporatism&quot;, is that, like a drug, it damages the very businesses that participate in it. At least that&#039;s my belief. 

The first way this happens is that it forces corporations to &quot;cast the die&quot;; in other words, capitalize on a highly inflexible business strategy. So when markets (and laws) change like they always do, suddenly the company doesn&#039;t have a leg to stand on.  Example: Chrysler and GM.

The more fundamental problem is the complacency, mediocrity, and illusion of control that is fostered inside a corporation by legal favoritism. A great example of this is the anti-trust exemption enjoyed by for-profit health insurance companies here in the US. It&#039;s my observation that sometimes corporations develop the attitude that the government is their &quot;customer,&quot; and customers are not. In my opinion, abandoning basic respect for your customers is often the first step towards bankruptcy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that&#8217;s ironic about &#8220;corporatism&#8221;, is that, like a drug, it damages the very businesses that participate in it. At least that&#8217;s my belief. </p>
<p>The first way this happens is that it forces corporations to &#8220;cast the die&#8221;; in other words, capitalize on a highly inflexible business strategy. So when markets (and laws) change like they always do, suddenly the company doesn&#8217;t have a leg to stand on.  Example: Chrysler and GM.</p>
<p>The more fundamental problem is the complacency, mediocrity, and illusion of control that is fostered inside a corporation by legal favoritism. A great example of this is the anti-trust exemption enjoyed by for-profit health insurance companies here in the US. It&#8217;s my observation that sometimes corporations develop the attitude that the government is their &#8220;customer,&#8221; and customers are not. In my opinion, abandoning basic respect for your customers is often the first step towards bankruptcy.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63445</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63445</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t follow your logic here Connor.  There are a plethora of actions a political officeholder can take or refrain from taking that are perfectly constitutional by even a restrictive definition but would still benefit a corporation or even an entire industry.  Even if we stopped officeholders from &quot;exceeding the limits&quot; placed on them by the Constitution (which we are not ever going to be able to do of course), it would still be in the bottom-line interest of big corporations to dominate our political process.

The problem here is the definition of a corporation.  If we are to apply the Constitutional test, then we need to understand what a corporation was in the eyes of the Founders.  A corporation was a legal entity chartered by an individual state for a defined period of time to perform specific economic or other activities.  If the entity failed to perform those activities or violated the law, the charter would be revoked.   To consider that legal entity to be a person and to apply the rights enumerated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights to that entity is the mistake here.

The individuals who own shares, or works for, or directs a corporation are and should be free to speak and assemble and otherwise participate in the political process.  The legal construct with which they are associated is not a person and should not be endowed with the rights of a person.  As Thomas Jefferson wrote, &quot;I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.&quot;  No profit-making corporation can claim to be a free association of citizens, nor can its bank accounts be construed as the collective contributions of its employees and/or shareholders to be used on their behalf.

One last note, I disagree with Professor Lessig.  We are far too polarized a nation and far too dominated by corporations to engage in a sane process of Constitutional reform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t follow your logic here Connor.  There are a plethora of actions a political officeholder can take or refrain from taking that are perfectly constitutional by even a restrictive definition but would still benefit a corporation or even an entire industry.  Even if we stopped officeholders from &#8220;exceeding the limits&#8221; placed on them by the Constitution (which we are not ever going to be able to do of course), it would still be in the bottom-line interest of big corporations to dominate our political process.</p>
<p>The problem here is the definition of a corporation.  If we are to apply the Constitutional test, then we need to understand what a corporation was in the eyes of the Founders.  A corporation was a legal entity chartered by an individual state for a defined period of time to perform specific economic or other activities.  If the entity failed to perform those activities or violated the law, the charter would be revoked.   To consider that legal entity to be a person and to apply the rights enumerated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights to that entity is the mistake here.</p>
<p>The individuals who own shares, or works for, or directs a corporation are and should be free to speak and assemble and otherwise participate in the political process.  The legal construct with which they are associated is not a person and should not be endowed with the rights of a person.  As Thomas Jefferson wrote, &#8220;I hope we shall&#8230; crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.&#8221;  No profit-making corporation can claim to be a free association of citizens, nor can its bank accounts be construed as the collective contributions of its employees and/or shareholders to be used on their behalf.</p>
<p>One last note, I disagree with Professor Lessig.  We are far too polarized a nation and far too dominated by corporations to engage in a sane process of Constitutional reform.</p>
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		<title>By: Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63444</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63444</guid>
		<description>Just moments ago, Lawrence Lessig sent out an announcement of another initiative he&#039;s pushing for in response to &lt;em&gt;Citizens United&lt;/em&gt;: &lt;a href=&quot;/blog/the-dangers-of-a-modern-constitutional-convention&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a constitutional convention&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.callaconvention.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bad idea.&lt;/a&gt;

And &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUdFaIYzNwU&amp;sns=em&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this video&lt;/a&gt; by Reason hits a couple of the points I&#039;ve highlighted here, as well as a couple more that are worth considering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just moments ago, Lawrence Lessig sent out an announcement of another initiative he&#8217;s pushing for in response to <em>Citizens United</em>: <a href="/blog/the-dangers-of-a-modern-constitutional-convention" rel="nofollow">a constitutional convention</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.callaconvention.org/" rel="nofollow">Bad idea.</a></p>
<p>And <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUdFaIYzNwU&#038;sns=em" rel="nofollow">this video</a> by Reason hits a couple of the points I&#8217;ve highlighted here, as well as a couple more that are worth considering.</p>
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		<title>By: Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63438</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63438</guid>
		<description>On the issue of a politician funded by and favoring a corporation: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14327776&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;case in point&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the issue of a politician funded by and favoring a corporation: <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14327776" rel="nofollow">case in point</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael L. McKee</title>
		<link>http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-misplaced-ire-of-citizens-united#comment-63434</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael L. McKee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/?p=1486#comment-63434</guid>
		<description>I believe the Vietnam veteran and illustrious recipient of the Purple Heart award, John F. Kerry, has recently indicated we need to begin proceedings to bring about a constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the Vietnam veteran and illustrious recipient of the Purple Heart award, John F. Kerry, has recently indicated we need to begin proceedings to bring about a constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court on this issue.</p>
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