The secret to abundance, or enough and to spare is brought to light in the following:

“For the power of God is only manifest by grace, and that grace cometh only by the willingness to bless and be blessed. And because of our traditions,. . .we were desirous of receiving but would not give forth the same in blessing;” -Author’s name withheld

As far as global warming is concerned, everyone needs to study up on Global Dimming.

The reason why I feel it is so important to understand that there are enough resources to sustain all human life, is because the Devil is using the opposite argument in an attempt to bring about a New World Order and global human enslavement. One of the key deceptions the Devil is using seems to be that this earth cannot possibly sustain all life. There is a lot of pressure for us to give way to the fear of “Global Warming”, forfeit our liberties for global security (and our common sense) and even become accepting of a drastic reduction to the human population in order to save ourselves.

I think it is a ridiculous assumption, made by some, that if a person doesn’t believe in the great global warming swindle and sees through phony environmental movements that it automatically means that person is opposed to taking care of the earth and replenishing it. I recognize that part of my responsibility on this earth is to take care of it…but I am not going to go to extremes based off of satanic deceptions.

Can we get pretty tight on oil? Yes, but He will reveal other ways to take care of our needs in that event.

If there is no problem, then why conserve? Conservation, or at least avoiding conspicuous consumption, is a healthy mindset and a righteous way to live. Among the commandments given to Adam and Eve was “Take care of the Garden”. Not that the Garden was in big trouble if he didn’t, but God wanted it done for their benefit more than for just a nice Garden.

I’ve written pretty extensively on this subject, speculating on why God created dinosaurs, how one should react to global warming, etc.

Mike Brown
http://www.latterdaylogic.com

you are comletely missing the point. “Enough and to spare” is not dependent upon the word finite. You’re whole statement is contradictory. You can not have finite and enough and to spare. What’s enough? It’s enough. That’s what it is. But there’s spare as well, not finite. It isn’t a probability of people living accordingly, whatever “accordingly” is.

Accordingly is something that leads one man to think he knows “accordingly” better than another and he then tries to force is knowledge on others because he “knows” what it means to use resources in the “accordingly.” But I ask again, when do we reach “accordingly?” WE DON”T! EVER! If you try to tell me or others when, you are telling us you know and we don’t and that we don’t have the ability to find accordingly. And, we will never agree on what “accordingly” is.

Don’t you see? Accordingly and “right amount” can never be reached because in order for this to happen, one person has to decide what is right for others, and this is inherently wrong. Others will not agree because they will believe they know what it means to live “accordingly” and disagreement ensues. Conservation is not an absolute. To believe this is to believe a lie. Each man will conserve as his knowledge instructs him to do. This is why I can’t stand it when people throw around rhetoic about politicians, and it is usually about Bush. HE DOES NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS OR THE SOLUTIONS and he DOES NOT CARRY THE BLAME. You do and I do. Blaming him or others is a scapegoat because when we do this we are also telling ourselves that it is not our responsibiltiy. You want to talk religion? This is exactly the kind of thinking that Satan, the Devil, bad karma wants us to participate in. When we don’t have responsibilty in our minds (in this case it has been shifted to Bush) we don’t use our greatest ability, and that is our ability to act.

When does it become excess? What’s the tipping point?

What does “overconsume” mean, and when do we reach that point?

The Bush card is old, and it’s rediculously trendy to point the problems in his direction. If you think that environmental issues have anything to do with him, you are sorely caught up in political banter. Bush, politicians, etc… don’t have responsibility to increase automobile gas mileage. We don’t live in a communist country where we force enterprise to do something, even though this country flirts with socialistic behavior at times. Car companies are the ones who make the cars, not Bush. Gas mileage is in their hands not the hands of politicians. Treaties don’t fix environmental problems, people do. Alternative energy won’t fix anything either. It’s political banter. Again, the Bush card is old, tiresome, and useless because there is nothing Bush or any other politican could do to fix this. You add no help to the situation thinking that politicians are going to do something about this.

Swift environmental change will only take place when it becomes profitable for some industry to participate in it willingly.

I just spent a day in S.F. consulting with a company that is very smart in realizing that this is the key to their success. Do not focus on responsibility. Focus on profitability. Environmental change is the byproduct. So many Americans hate this because they think it is evil or misguided, but it is exactly the way the United States functions, and that is what makes it great. Man is rewarded for his work. Force (even if it is force in environmental issues) is not virtuous. Government is almost always the guilty party in force, ie . . .
- Making car companies develop environmentally friendly cars is force not freedom. It’s wrong. Force leads to more force, leads to more force, leads to socialism, which often degrades to communism. It isn’t how this country operates. This is a free society.

There you have it. So:
- spew whatever you want in the atmosphere, when we deplete the ozone layer and the air turns to carbon dioxide, we’ll just find a new atmosphere.
- don’t recycle that stuff, dump it in the ocean, when it’s full, we’ll just find another.
- print out me a hard copy of that. I like sand and the deserts aren’t growing fast enough, those darn rainforests and grasslands grow back too quickly.
- don’t worry, global warming is a myth, and even if it is heating up, isn’t what air conditioning is for?
- don’t buy that hybrid car, we’ll find more oil, be it sour crude, shale, or tar sands, because tearing up the land to get it only serves help the environment.

If everybody recognized that there are finite resources on this planet, and lived accordingly, we probably would have ‘enough and to spare.’ But somewhere along the line people started rationalizing (using scriptures, among other things) their actions. The Bush administration, who has ties to the oil industry, has repeatedly struck down opportunities to improve environmental policy (Kyoto Treaty, increasing automobile gas mileage, increasing funding for alternative energy, e.g. hydrogen and ethanol), and perpetuates the belief that we don’t need to change the way we live.

I realize now that you, Connor, probably feel attacked (there were some harsh words written, by myself included), and while I happen to know for a fact that you don’t live to excess, I think your post also perpetuates the belief that people don’t need to conserve. There are a lot of people actively searching out ways to keep from doing what they know they should.

The fact that I see so many hummers and huge trucks driving on the freeway makes me think we’re not doing so hot… That and the fact that very few people (I assume) do very little in the way of sharing their resources with others who need it as well.

Based on my citation of the scripture, I don’t think we can “overconsume” the earth’s resources. If oil gets to an astronomically high price, that means that the reservoirs we’re drilling in are being depleted, and we need to look elsewhere, or with other means, to obtain the resource.

Narrator,

If you have time, read the talk by Brother Brigham posted in comment 37, he answers your question very well.

If there is no way that mankind can go beyond the resources available, then what point is there in conserving, or as you put it “using the earth’s resources responsibly”? What does that phrase even mean?

And as a follow up question, is there some point (i.e. oil is $5000/barrel) where you would say we’ve overconsumed the earth’s resources?

2. Jtanium, you asked how “we” are doing. That depends on your definition of “we”. If you mean we as a society, I think we do good at times, bad at others. During events of trauma and crisis, people become much more generous and donate heartily to funds established for the aid of the poor and needy. When there is no crisis, the people that are starving around the world are forgotten, as we move about our lives as normal. So “we” as a society are not doing nearly well enough as we should.

“We” as a church, for those that are LDS, are doing quite well, in my opinion. We pay fast offerings to help the sick, needy, and poor. We donate to a humanitarian aid fund that goes to administering to the sick, afflicted, and needy. We have an excellent organization established for this cause, and are known the world over for giving aid to all persons that are in dire need. In times of crisis, we are usually the first ones on the scene with cargo planes loaded with needed supplies.

“We” as Americans closely correlates with #1. We’re not doing as well as we should. The poorest person in the U.S. is in a far better condition than somebody in a third world country (as I saw in Honduras, where I served my mission). We are very well to do, and should (as Brigham Young said in the above-linked discourse) give of our means and resources to those who need it.

“Have this people been blessed too much? I will not positively say, but I think they have, inasmuch as their blessings in some instances have been to their injury. Why? Because they have not known what to do with their blessings.”
—Brigham Young, The Use and Abuse of Blessings

So how do you think we are doing?

Action is only justified by its fruits. If your fruit is “raping” the earth, well then you’re action isn’t justified. if your fruit is somebody’s enslavement or death, chances are your action never had any legitimate basis to begin with.

“By their fruits shall ye know them”.

Enough and to spare is a mindset, and it has nothing to do with waste or accumulation. It’s tied to utilization.

I think you’re exactly right. This is backed up by the following scriptures:

For it is expedient that I, the Lord, should make every man accountable, as a steward over earthly blessings, which I have made and prepared for my creatures. (D&C 104:13)

For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation. (D&C 82:3)

We live in opulence. We have an abundant amount of resources at our disposal. As I have stated previously in this post and in my comments, we should not waste in excess that which we don’t need. So yes, I do agree with you that using the earth’s resources responsibly is another aspect of our test here on this earth. Does that mean we need to go to extreme measures to conserve and reduce our usage of these resources? No. Like the scripture says, there is an abundant amount of resources for all mankind. This takes us to one of your other questions:

Why don’t you go to Africa and ask people there if they have ‘enough and to spare?’ Or China. Or India. Let alone Afghanistan. You think that because you were ‘born in the middle of the North American land mass’ you get to have enough and to spare. It is despicable that you would even think about making a statement like what you have said in your post. Get the silver spoon out of your mouth.

Funny you should mention that. In case you didn’t notice one of my recent posts, I am organizing a service project in our ward to collect supplies (and money to purchase supplies) to put together hygiene and first aid kits for people in Zambia, Africa. Perhaps you’d like to help out?

To directly answer your question, I think it makes sense to take a step back first. Since we in the “land of promise” have been given much, much is required. We are to carry others in our arms and upon our shoulders (Isaiah 49:22). We are to help others have easy access to the many resources we are able to obtain. So through charity and volunteer work, through organizations, companies, and individuals, we should all reach out and help others. Definitely.

Just because there aren’t abundant resources in New Dehli doesn’t mean the Lord hasn’t made those resources available. He didn’t say that there was an even distribution of resources in every geographical location. Common sense indicates that different areas of the world have different climates and temperate zones which are more viable for a certain type of crop or resource. Am I “entitled” to “enough, and to spare” by being born in the USA? No. But I am blessed with it. And I see it as my responsibility to give back to others who might not have been born into such fortunate circumstances. I would hope that we all feel the same way. So rather than showing over buckets, or biking everywhere possible, let’s instead choose to use our resources to help others who don’t have such easy access to them.

For instance, let’s say God calculated that we would need 1 trillion barrels of oil. So he put 1.25 trillion barrels in the earth, that would be enough and to spare. It seems reasonable that if he expects us to use only 1 trillion barrels of oil that he would give us the ability to determine how to use it properly (this would be where science and technology come in).

This applies equally to the other aspects of the environment. This brings me to the question: are we doing a good job of meeting God’s expectations?

I think the problem everyone has with your post is it seems like you are using scripture to justify raping the earth. Granted, there are people *cough* who don’t see a problem with this. IMO, if you ever have to use scripture to justify your actions, you should look deep down inside yourself to see if you really understand the scripture and are doing what God would have you do. Really think long and hard about it.

Now, the hard question: why don’t you go to Africa and ask people there if they have ‘enough and to spare?’ Or China. Or India. Let alone Afghanistan. You think that because you were ‘born in the middle of the North American land mass’ you get to have enough and to spare. It is despicable that you would even think about making a statement like what you have said in your post.

Get the silver spoon out of your mouth.