sad . . .

they did a good job of hijacking/sabotaging it–

most tea partiers don’t even know it happened–

:(

Although Mr. Kirkham professes not to like politicians as a rule, he refers frequently to his conversations with some of the state’s leading political figures, including his new friend Orrin — as in Orrin G. Hatch, who has served in the United States Senate since Mr. Kirkham was 10. Mr. Hatch seemed to grasp the relevance of the Tea Party movement long before his doomed colleague, Mr. Bennett. After that first rally, Mr. Hatch invited Mr. Kirkham up to his Salt Lake City office for a long chat about cars and politics. The two now talk often, and Mr. Kirkham has brought Mr. Hatch to Tea Party events — including a picnic in the canyons — where he has had the chance to explain his record to hundreds of furious conservative activists. (“I’m angry, too!” Mr. Hatch told me.)

In other words, Mr. Kirkham has become a bridge between the party establishment and its alienated constituents, a man to whom confused politicians can turn to understand and survive a turbulent moment.

“I was a little apprehensive to meet him,” Mr. Hatch told me recently. “But I think he’s one of the finest people I’ve met, and I’m not just saying that. David Kirkham is a leader.”

I was looking in the comments for one idea which I felt was even more poignant than most being made, and the kudos goes to Ajax. I posed the same sentiment at the Provo TEA party: We, the People, only hold as much power as we choose to wield. Case in point, if we, as a country of United Citizens, were to declare an end to income tax until things were reigned in by the federal government, then very quickly the politicians would see that we are the ones in control, not them. If together we chose to stay home April 15th to actively defend our right to demand change, then we would see it soon enough. I’m sure there would be arrests, and I’m sure there would be riots. But in the end, if we united and spoke up, solutions would more than likely be found.

I was happy to see so many “terrorists” turn out for the tea parties, but one thing I noticed was that so many of these folks were demanding change from the government. Yet we as Americans have reached an all time high for personal debt and spending. I used to think the country was a reflection of our government – I’m sure in some ways it is – but if we had our financial lives in order, would we even consider the many “big government” programs which have cankered America’s core ideals of late? Nationalized health care, bailouts, taxing the rich for the “poor’s” sake – these are all things that are in place now because people have lost the commitment to one core American philosophy: Personal responsibility.

I don’t think the tea parties are bad. I think they serve a purpose. However, the real change will come with real sacrifice and risk. Without willingness to sacrifice, we’re nothing more than subjects.

Just my 2¢.

Granted, grassroots organizing and planning can take some time. But that duration also increases the chances of the cause fizzing out. The reason that some advocate a physical catalyst is that it galvanizes people quickly, focusing them on a specific issue much faster than otherwise would have happened. I’m not entirely sure that this is necessary. Instead, I think that something specific and actionable needs to be the focus of our efforts so that we can accomplish our task and then move on to the next, rather than spending our time signing up a few new party recruits, gathering some petition signatures, and collecting some donations.

1) Break the law.
2) Destroy something.
3) Become violent.
4) Make threats that will have people shivering.

Look, I like Lew. But if this is his definition of a protest, it just shows why I’m only a moderate libertarian. I still believe in the rule of law. I believe in the Constitution. I believe in the Declaration. Have we gotten to the point where we have the right to abolish the current form of government? If not, we are not justified in using violence to alter it.

I view this as a caveat. If things get much worse we may be justified in using violent and/or illegal measures to do so. So, far we are not under absolute despotism.

But what I really fear is that if it gets much worse, we won’t have to. The system will just fall apart on its own.

First of all, there was a broad spectrum of participants. This included registered Democrats, independents, third parties, and fringe elements. A majority were registered Republicans.

EVERY interview, picture, etc. that I heard or saw was either with one of the fringes or one that was completely misrepresented by the newscaster. Further, it was repeated over and over again that this was “astroturf roots” rather than “grass roots”.

How do these people keep their jobs? They openly make snide remarks about participants being “tea-baggers”. If you don’t get the innuendo, you may not want to know. They said that because an interviewee wanted liberty and lower taxes, that the party was obviously “not family friendly”. Where the heck did that come from?

Local newscasters in Denver said that the crowd kept shouting “impeach Obama!” A lot of people were lifting an eyebrow trying to figure out what they were talking about. Most people never heard anything of the kind.

A few mentioned a group of three or four people in one corner who kept chanting that, but it never caught on. In fact, those around them hushed them up. it was NOT supposed to be about Obama. It was supposed to be about the entire government going out of control. He was a part of it. But only a part. Thus he was mentioned, but so were a lot of others.

The local media reported that “many” wore V for Vendetta masks and paraphenalia. Some mentioned a party of 5 or 6 walking around the square looking for the cameras. And the cameras were happy to find them. I wonder what world aggrandizes 5 or 6 as “many”.

Most of the signs had comments regarding the bailout, debt, taxes, the Fed, etc. But most of the photos you saw were cherry picked to have the most anti-Obama signs show up on the internet as possible.

Out of an estimated 3500 people who showed up, a couple dozen fringe elements were the ones who were covered on the local media. National media, did only marginally better.

They blame Fox and talk radio for “crossing the line from journalism to activism.” Look who’s talking!!!

I tell you, when I think about these tea parties, a thrill goes up my leg.

Again and again the question was asked,”Where were these people when Bush was going out of control?” 90% of the same people were shouting epithets at bush as well. These were the people responsible for giving Bush such low ratings.

What really irks the MSM is that liberal Congress had a lower rating than Bush, and the liberal media had a lower approval rating than Congress. This should tell them something. But they are as deaf to these protests as our elected officials, if not more so.

I was going to ask,”How do they live with themselves?” Believing that they make a living by telling lies. But then I remembered the attitudes, the looks, the words, the interviews. I realized that they don’t do this to deceive their viewers. They’ve already deceived themselves with preconceived notions about these protests.

To them, they are not lying. They believe it. They’ve become a mindless cult. They feel it is a moral imperative to report these parties as dangerous, anti-American, anti-Obama, terrorist enclaves, regardless of what is right before their eyes.

Nevermind the fact that these protests were carried on without outbreaks of violence or vandalism. Nevermind that most of the signage was of restoring America and the Constitution.

But then again according to the DHS, those who want the government to be more constitutional are potential terrror suspects.

THAT’S SCARY.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term “grass-roots.”

While I can understand your reservations with three politicians speaking at the SLC tea party, wasn’t there another of the 12 tea parties in the valley that you could have attended to raise your voice?

While tea parties may not bring about huge change on their own, seeing the massives numbers that rallied together is impressive. Never before has there ever been such a grass roots movement since teh 1700s.

Spread among all businesses, profitable and unprofitable, the rate would be much smaller. In theory, you could use GDP as a measure of all the sales in the country and figure out how much you need to tax.

Then abolish all other taxes.

The Tea Party idea will get people out and together where they can realize that there are others like them

These tea parties represent the first clue that many of us had, that there were SO many who agreed with us.

There were also some people gathering names and phone numbers to help organize local study groups and action committees

That is great! Networking is an extremely important step in becoming politically active. It may be the first step many will take on that journey. And who knows where they’ll go from there?

You know, some people grow up with an innate (or learned) desire to actively engage in politics, but way too many of us don’t and it seems to take some sort of “event” to get us passionate. I was the type that, even in college, never really had opinions on political issues and would dread writing those argumentative papers because I would have to pretend to take a side. Pathetic, I know :)

For some reason, my “event” was 911. It just got me interested and curious about a lot of things (mainly government and politics). It seemed urgent and important that I begin educating myself. Yes, I should have done that earlier. And maybe those who are just beginning to realize things are getting bad should have woken up a little sooner too. But I can’t fault them in the least. I just think it’s great that more people are starting to care.

Some of those involved may remain strictly partisan and never open themselves up to understanding the deeper issues, but I hope that it sparks a desire for many to learn as much truth as they can. We need to join in the discussions (there will likely be many in the future) and all learn from each other.

The 15% can’t be just any taxpayer. It will have to be that total number (about 30million) self-employed taxpayers. The average person with a job doesn’t need to be taken to jail. He just has his wages garnished. Of all taxpayers, the number would have to be so high, that the logistics of wage garnishment would be impractical. I bet that could be as high as 100 million taxpayers.

If there is enough dedication among the masses to refuse to pay taxes, I would love to be counted in.

One more problem is that I know the tax code well enough that I really don’t pay much in taxes. I run my own business. I have lots of deductions. I have many kids . . . So, I’m not really motivated to take the risk currently unless I’m sure there is a reasonable chance that it will do some good.

This is another reason why it has to be self-employed tax-payers.

Thomas,

I like that Pyro website. And I do not, nor do I intend to, take part in any of those government programs you mentioned. But there is one major category that you left out:

Employment.

This refers to both those directly employed by government entities, and those who work for companies who’s primary client is the government. I might add a third category: Those whose jobs would either be less important or completely unecessary if not for government requirements.

I must add myself to that last one. As a structural engineer, my job probably would not exist (at least for the clients I have) if people didn’t need my stamp to satisfy a government requirement. At the very least, my services wouldn’t be as much in demand.

But I’m thinking there are very few professions that are not in these categories any more due to government intervention into virtually everything. I am a believer in the free market. But if we really did go cold turkey into a real free market system, it would be a devastating transition period. One I would be willing to go through if I knew it was actually going to take.

Was there really any difference between McCain and Obama on the bail-out? No! In economic matters they are quite aligned.

Oh, let’s not forget that our beloved Utah Senators and most of the Congress people supported both the bail-out and the subsequent stimulus packages (blatant Socialism). And yet we’re supposed to be the ‘reddest of the red states.’ Give me a break people.

I say Choose the Right, Let the Consequence Follow!

Pay no attention to me, I’m just an extremist who truly loves freedom. ;-)

In my opinion they should all grow a pair and make like this guy

Refuse to pay your taxes and instead, donate it to whomever or whatever cause you like, even if it is a cause for your own well-being.

People have been marching and waving signs as long as there have been (marginally) representative governments.

Unless they’re backed by at least a credible threat of civil disobedience, governments don’t pay attention. They just say “isn’t democracy great, guys! Well, let’s everybody get back to our business, shall we….”

If you know of any large organized effort to stop filing tax returns, or to send back social security cards, or something of that Ilk. I’ll be among the first to sign up……count me in.

I think if even 15% of the US pop. stopped paying income tax, then bragged to their friends about it……well, I’d still be worried about martial law and the whole posse comitatus thing…

Here in Denver, it did accomplish something and got the politicians to pay attention. This one was almost entirely grass-roots. The promotion may have been through the nation-wide organizations. But the advertising and organizing were completely local, by small groups of average citizens that communicated well through the internet.

No politicians that I know of were invited to speak, with one exception. The governor. And that was what made it so unique.

The “green” governor got out of his stretch SUV (commonly known as the governor–mobile). He was alarmed to get a real view of how many people were there. I hear there were between 5000 to 10000 people around the state capitol.

He saw the crowd and the scowls. One guy invited the governor to speak on a portable PA system. He pointed to a car parked in his parking spot. The guy with the PA system happened to own it. He took his keys out and invited the governor to move it for him.

Then he pulled the keys back and said,”No, on second thought, if I give you the keys, you’ll just give it to some illegals.”

The governor got back into his car and left. No one saw him for the rest of the day.